 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-03 08:30
I am changing this thread and will post my progress notes and videos. It is an ongoing thread. For those that are not familiar with me, I will give a brief intro.
I am 34 and attending a university in Southern Colorado, working on a degrees in K-12 Music Education and Spanish. I picked up the clarinet about 7 months ago after not playing the instrument in 16 years. My main motivation to begin playing again was because I knew I'd have to master an instrument to obtain my desired degree. I do enjoy playing, but it is frustrating for me. I have been studying with a woodwind technique instructor that teaches at the university. I have a lot of work ahead of me to reach a level of acceptable proficiency. I am honest about my playing, it is not good, but I am improving.
I was compelled to head back to school for a degree in Music Education after I returned to my hometown and learning of the dismal state the Arts programs in the public school system. I became involved in local advocacy groups that promote music education in the community and volunteered at local schools.
I am not a terrific musician, but I am willing to work hard to become a proficient musician and, hopefully, excellent and encouraging teacher.
I thank the board in advance for any help that you can provide. Also, thank you for your PATIENCE and time.
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ORIGINAL POST
Hi all, me again!
So, I have decided to start a youtube channel and post my weekly applied clarinet and oboe lessons and get as much input as possible. I also need to force myself to comfortably play a piece straight through. Recording myself again and again until I make as few mistakes as possible seems like the solution.
I will begin performing in symposium next semester (twice each semester for each instrument) and I figure that I can alleviate some of my stage fright by sharing with people via youtube. I am terrified at the prospect of playing solo in front of a crowd of music majors and instructors.
So, please, help me out!
Thanks,
Mandy
http://doublerbubbler.blogspot.com/
P.S. Keep in mind, I just started playing the clarinet this last June, having not played it for 16 years! I had to work my butt off just to get back to this level. It is not easy to do (at least for me, it wasn't)!
*EDIT NOTE* Thanks to input from everyone, I see that I have major problems in my playing. MAJOR. Working to resolve these problems.
Post Edited (2012-01-03 08:37)
Post Edited (2012-01-19 23:07)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-03 08:54
I liked the video stuff and the back drop !
You're sound is basically solid but the standout issue IS rhythm. I think if you re-asses from the point where things were solid you could expand from there. When the beginning theme comes back an octave lower (last 22 bars) the rhythm of those slow notes is great. NOW, just start to divide up your long notes into even bits....... so....... jump right from those first two bars where you play GREAT quarter notes to the fourth bar where there are straight eighths and really concentrate on making those HALF as long. THEN, jump back to the second beat of the third bar where there are sixteenths and make those half again as long as the eighths you just played.
OK, I know this sounds obvious BUT you don't PLAY the relationship that way even though you mean to do it. For me, rhythm is the TIME (length) you define with the sound of each note. As I said, those quarters of yours toward the end are GREAT. You just need to then make sure the relationship of those lengths is the same to the corresponding fractions of those lengths. But think LENGTH OF SOUND (it never helped me to think of s-u-b-d-i-v-i-s-i-o-n as we normally speak of it).
Good job.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-03 16:30
Thanks Paul!
I listened to the recording again this morning (nothing like a good sleep) and you are absolutely correct. I understand what you conveyed in writing *I hope at least*.
My rhythm is completely off on the bars that you discussed. Sometimes I feel a sense of slight panic when I am playing, like I'm on a runaway train and the notes are getting away from me. When the "wild ride" is over, I am normally just glad I played the written notes. I feel problem will resolve itself with time and practice.
I also think I need to pay more attention to bringing out the theme and the tension/resolution aspect of the piece.
Anyone else? Help me out?
Thanks,
Mandy
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2012-01-03 16:58
I really enjoyed the video, especially the comments you wrote in it. Some of them made me smile, especially the last one about the high D.
Paul basically covered the rhythm stuff. For me, I would marry a metronome and work with different subdivisions, try to get it all to lock in.
2 things really stood out for me, sometimes the sound quality sounds like it changes, almost like the vowel you use changes from an o to an ee as you get higher. Try to keep maintaining a "eu" vowel and a really solid embouchure and it will help give your sound that homogeneous quality across all the registers. We want our upper clarion/altissimo registers to sound as rich and dark as our lower registers.
Also (and this probably also ties into rhythm and the sound thing I mentioned) try to really engage your air and support through the whole line. Sometimes it sounds stagnant and in music we should always be going somewhere, its about movement.
Don't be afraid to really make music with it. It can be easy for us to focus too much on playing it properly with proper technique and ignoring the fact that we are making music! Take sometime to experiment with where each phrase is, and where its going. It should sound really organic and natural like one line just blossoms from another.
Sorry if all this sounds scattered or incoherent. My brain is a bit shot at the moment.
Bravo! Really nice job! Especially for not playing for 16 years!!! Keep up the good work.
P.S. There are also recordings of the Rose etudes with piano accompaniment. I thought you may find it interesting or helpful!
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-03 17:17
Elizabeth! You have helped me identify the problem of my changing tone. I have been really aggrevated with this, but I did not know what I was doing! I am changing vowels in the middle of sustained notes. I will focus on this (long tone exercises??).
You have no idea how your comment helped create a 'lightbulb' moment for me. Thank you so much.
I've been working on air support lately. My tendency is to have a very shallow air storage (for lack of better words... my mind is not fully alert at the moment).
Thank you. 
Mandy
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2012-01-03 18:10
Long tones are awesome. There is also this exercise in the Daniel Bonade workbook I love, you start on one note and slur up and try to really create a good solid connection between them so you would go C-D then C-E C-F C-G etc. holding each for 2-4 beats. you can also do it backwards where you slur down instead of up.
What I've found really helpful in terms of working on air support is actually practicing with just the air, so you blow through the horn but there is no sound just a whoosh of air. It helps your body to learn how freely the air should move through the horn, and it should be fast a really fast focused stream of air. You can also practice pinning a piece of paper to the wall with just your air. I show my students that, they thinks its so cool. You air should hit it like a tack, really focused in one spot and strong enough that it doesn't budge.
These work for me but there are tons of other ways to approach it. Read up on stuff, experiment and see what works for you!
I'm glad you found my comment helpful! I love little lightbulb moments.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-04 02:12
Mandy -
Remember that you put the recording up on a public site and asked for advice and criticism in an expert forum.
Tuchus offen tisch. (Yiddish for let's sit on the table and have some straight talk.)
This is not bad for coming back after a long time off. Playing pops back up more quickly than you imagine. Just keep at it. When you're putting air through the instrument, you have a nice sound.
Are you studying music for your own pleasure? If so, then how you play doesn't matter, as long as you enjoy it. However, in your introduction you say you're in college, taking classes in performance. If you're majoring in music, unfortunately you're in a world of trouble, even if your major is music history or music theory. As a college music major, you need to play an instrument reasonably well, and, frankly, the recording don't come close.
I hear some nice things, but they're so buried in the rhythmic chaos and the lack of musical understanding that all the good gets lost. If you're a music major, you need to get lessons with a teacher who can work with you on the basics. Otherwise, I advise you to put the clarinet away and save it for your lovely son when he gets old enough. He has enough energy for three people.
Sorry I can't be more encouraging.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-04 02:58
Gosh Ken,
I'm glad I was never one of YOUR students.
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-04 03:55
Ken,
Yes, that was harsh. I won't lie, but I do appreciate your candidness. I would be terribly worried if I was planning on playing the clarinet professionally! In fact, it would be an enormous waste of money on my part.
I am a music *education* major, so I am not looking to play pro. Music education majors must perform in symposium twice per semester and that is my biggest fear. I think if I get through the performance, I will be okay teaching K-12.
I *just* started back up and I will be in school at least another 3 years. I have no doubt that I can get my playing to a more acceptable level by my senior recital.
I certainly was not looking to impress a forum that is populated with pros. I simply wanted more input.
I am working with a teacher on a weekly basis. I've shelled out quite a bit of money thus far. Why don't you maybe give me a few tips (or not, I assume that you are likely a very busy individual). My main purpose was to get opinions and begin preparing myself for solo performance, something that I am dreading.
Thanks!
Mandy
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-04 04:04
One more note to Ken. I live in southern Colorado. I see that you are in Brooklyn. We are world's apart. I promise, you would be sorely disappointed by the talent pool here, it does not compare to the amount of talent in New York. Would it surprise you to know that I was chaired 4th chair out last semester? Of course it would, because you are in New York. I wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell at being admitted in a top quality music school in your area. But, I did very well when I auditioned for the poor souls that landed a job teaching at this university.
Music education is dying here. People don't care. They need teachers that want to see music education continue. When we moved back to my home town after being away for 16 years, I was horrified at what was happening to the art programs in the public schools. I became involved in local advocate organizations and it was then that I decided to head back to school to major in Music Education.
So, there ya go. Again, I DO appreciate your candid approach, but you must realize that not everyone wants to play at a professional level. Some of us want to attain a level of proficiency so that we can teach kids to love music.
No worries, should I fail to impress at a teaching interview (heaven forbid they insist I pull out my clarinet and play) I already have a background in Geology and I am double majoring in Spanish Education.
Thanks again,
Mandy
P.S. My husband is a Long Island boy. He hates it here and wants badly to move back to New York. Every time I visit my in-laws, I find myself completely out of my element. I am always struck by New Yorkers' abrupt mannerisms. I would not live there for the world.
Post Edited (2012-01-19 23:09)
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-04 04:28
So, does anyone else have constructive ADVICE to help my atrocious playing? It actually took me a long time to decide to post a video. It took even more guts to post the link here, a forum that I know professionals frequent.
If you would be so kind as to elaborate.... that would be helpful. I'd rather learn than feel bad about myself.
Signed,
Mandy
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2012-01-04 04:45
Hello Mandy,
I'm a clarinet teacher in Australia so there is no chance of you popping over for a lesson with me
I loved the refreshing humility of your comments. This forum does have some excellent advice on how to improve. Use the search function and look up Sean Osborne's or Ed Palanker's posts on how to practice. Anything by Antony Pay is very worthwhile and intellectually stimulating.
Look up things such as: breathing, phrasing and articulation.
Rather than give you a critique I would just say perseverance is everything and encourage you to keep up the good work.
Chris Ondaatje.
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-04 05:09
Thank you Chris! I will do that.
I'll also continue to scour the board and learn.
Frustrated,
Mandy
Post Edited (2012-01-19 23:10)
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2012-01-04 05:39
You said your boyfriend is a Long Island boy! Where from? I'm from the island myself and I actually have a good friend of mine (a musician) who is living in Colorado now.
Straight talk is good, but don't let it discourage you. The best thing you can do is ask for advice (which you have done) and see if it works for you (which you are doing).
Especially as a music educator, this is how you will best be able to serve your students. I find that people who have struggled or had to work hard for progress in their playing wind up making the best teachers if they can over come their hardships because then they know best how to assist their students and identify their issues.
One of my professors had a "chat" with me my freshman year in college. Told me that I should reconsider my field of study. I wound up graduating with honors and as one of the top players at a competitive school. I also have had a very successful career thus far performing and managing a private studio of over 30 students (most of whom have done well for themselves and placed well in local and state competitions).
Keep it going, you're doing exactly what you should be doing, working hard, asking questions and learning.
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Author: C.Elizabeth07
Date: 2012-01-04 05:57
Oh, and I'm a practicing freak... I'm fascinated by "practice pedagogy". Check out these books, you may find some of the techniques in them helpful
The Art of Clarinet Playing - Keith Stein
Daniel Bonade Work Book
Practicing for Artistic Success
Soprano on Her Head (especially for performance anxiety and preparation)
The Art of Wind Playing by Arthur Weisberg
Effortless Mastery (the author is from Long Island)
Hope these are helpful. Good luck!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-04 13:22
Mandy -
My advice is the same as you've already gotten.
Your first priority (by far) is to use a metronome, so that you can learn to play everything exactly as written. Start well below performance tempo, so that you can play everything clean and relaxed, without panic. Start with quarter notes at 40 if you need to, or even eighth notes at 60. Your motto must be Never Play Faster Than Perfect. Memorize, say, the first 8 bars and march around the room, playing strictly in time with your feet.
Second, you should work on long tones, so you can keep your breath support full and steady. As I said, when you put enough air through the clarinet, you sound good.
Third, you build an even technique by going through the Baermann III book, playing each exercise slowly and perfectly to engrave the patterns into your finger memory. It's no fun, but you need to give it your very best time. Spend the first 10 minutes of each practice session working out a single exercise until it's perfect. Once again, speed doesn't matter. You learn the finger movement sequences just as well slow as fast.
Fourth, you need to go through the music marking the phrase endings and cadences. To begin, take a breath (one metronome beat long) between phrases (even if you don't physically need to), so that your ears can understand what's happening. If you play piano, sit at the keyboard playing the clarinet part with your right hand and filling in the harmonies with your left. (It helps to take a music theory course.)
Every professional player has done this. You can to, if it's important to you.
Ken Shaw
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-04 15:34
Ken,
Thank you for this advice. I have a LOT of work ahead of me, but I am dedicated to doing this. I am far behind on the learning curve, but 34 yrs old is not too late hop back on the bandwagon.
I participated in Wind Ensemble this last semester, but took no actual music theory or technique classes, other than private lessons. In fact, this upcoming semester will mark my academic launch as a full Music Education major. I have years of theory and technique ahead of me and I have no doubt my playing ability and understanding of music will increase from this point on.
C.Elizabeth, thank you for all of your input. What a wealth of input.
THANKS to all. I will likely continue to vlog about my learning experience. I think it is a terrific tool, although I need to toughen up a bit and not get so bent out of shape when I am offered brutal honesty.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-04 15:56
Yeah, this Board can get pretty rough. But it's tame compared to much of the internet where many purposely set off intentional controversies just for the fun of it.
........................Paul Aviles
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-04 16:18
I am noticing that. I may just keep this thread open and post about my learning experiences on it, so that I do not clog the forum with unnecessary posts.
In answer to C.Elizabeth, about my husband. He was born in Stoneybrook, spent his early childhood in Port Jefferson and his later years in Rocky Point.
Paul, I see that you are in the Army. My husband just retired last summer.
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2012-01-04 16:36
Hi Mandy,
Don't get despondent or down on yourself.
I have just listened to the recording and, allowing for your recent return to playing and the fact that I imagine you probably didn't have the fanciest recording equipment, I didn't think it was at all bad.
I thought you were making a nice sound and were quite well in tune.
Tempo and rhythm is something a lot of us find difficult at times. I think that practising with a metronome would certainly help. In slow pieces like this it can be very easy to either speed up or slow down just slightly or find that you have suddenly exactly halved or doubled the tempo.
In terms of musicality how much do you listen to respected players - not just clarinettists but certainly other wind players and pianists and string players and especially singers? I know that you probably have a very busy schedule but a few minutes of your local classical radio station a day while you're having a meal or getting ready in the morning or whatever will start to rub off and develop your instinct for interpretation.
You may think that you have got a lot to learn and you may well be right but I agree totally with those who say that people who found something hard initially will often be best at teaching it in the end. I had to "plough my own furrow" quite a lot as a musician and in the end achieved things that I would never have thought possible (although I'm still hardly the greatest player ever). Moreover, I am struck by your motivation to teach others to enjoy music and if you have that passion to do that you will get there and I'm sure that you'll agree that one of the best things about music is that you can keep doing it all your life and still learn new things.
Good luck and all the best
Vanessa
PS - If you never seen it, or not for a while, try watching the film Mr Holland's Opus.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2012-01-04 18:23
Mandy - Since I taught for a couple of years in a small town in Southern Colorado way back in the 1970's I thought I would put in my two cents. First of all I congratulate you on your mission to improve music education in your home area. Music education is having a tough go now almost everywhere and we need committed individuals like you. I might also say that there were several people in my class at the University of Colorado who I thought were about the worst players ever....but they became great teachers in wonderful music programs. So, I think your effort to get as much mastery on the clarinet as you can is important for you, but remember that the real key to success is in the ability to effectively teach music to young people in a way that they learn to love it.
As to your recording, my comments also have to do with phrasing. I noticed that you emphasized many of the longer notes with an extra push, while not really bringing out the long line of the phrases. Around 2:00 in the recording I thought you carried that one out very well. In other places I think your playing was a bit "bumpy" and trying to get emotional on individual notes. Some of that is fine....just not all the time. Think of the long rolling country side in eastern Colorado versus the very lumpy front range of the Rocky Mountains to the west. So, less lumpy playing and more long rolling playing.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-04 18:49
Well Mandy, This is a touchy subject, so I'm gonna try to dance around a few things, cause I believe your heart is in the right place.
Unfortunately, I do side with Ken a bit. When I was growing up, even my music instructors were gigging musicians, and I don't know if this performance is concert ready. That being said, you will be more on the side of music appreciation, and not performance, and you certainly have the heart for teaching. I do hope your knowledge of the history is more developed.
One huge problem you may be faced with is the instrument itself. I hear a lot of wasted air in your phrasing. That screams to me mouthpiece issues. Maybe a smaller tip opening is in order, or even a whole new brand all together. What mouthpiece are you playing on? What type of reeds and strength? Oh, why not, what instrument and ligature as well. Just give me all the facts.
Once you are using your air optimally, you can then move on to intonation. Get a good tuner, and there are many really bad tuners on the market. I just spend $150 on a peterson virtual strobe, wish I did that 20 years ago when I started playing, but better late than never.
I'm not going to lie, I don't think you're ready for the Rose studies quite yet. They require a lot of control of the instrument, and I'm pretty sure you'll agree that you are not there yet. I'd start with easier, slow songs that don't focus on the hardest parts of the instrument. Definietly no 16th notes right now. 8ths or less only. Record yourself frequently. Be very critical of yourself. Once someone claims to work as a musician or likewise, people start really telling you how they feel, and you may not like it. You're supposed to be an expert on the subject of music, so don't get too offended if sometimes people tell you you have a lot of work to do, because it may just be true.
I'm sorry, I didn't want to end on that last thing I said. I do appreciate you wanting to keep the music alive, and we all do need good educators to show our children that there's more to music than Lady Gaga, Rhianna, and Eminem.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-04 19:27
Since much water has passed under this bridge and we are still talking about my favorite topic, rhythm, I thought I'd repost my story.
One of my most 'lightbulb' moments was with a fellow military musician (an alumnus of The President's Own) who was helping me with my hideous rhythm. He told me to think linearly and horizontally. In fact as he beat time to my playing he moved his hand back and forth across his body through the air (mostly to no avail).
Finally he said, "Ok, if I play a quarter note for you right now, I could come back after lunch and play that note the same length."
Point being that 'rhythm' is the length of TIME, not just companion to your foot going up and down.
So one way to look at is, for example, if each quarter where one second long, what you would play would be: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00, 1.00 for four consecutive quarters.
Bad rhythm would look like this: 1.00, 0.94, 1.03, 0.90 for four consecutive quarters at the same pace.
So playing correctly, all you have to do is make the eighth notes 0.50 apiece ...... etc. (of course triplets are three divisions of the beat but then triplets and duplets cover the entirety of Western rhythm and you're done).
If you practice S-L-O-W scales in this manner for awhile, you will HEAR some amazing things....... PROMISE !!!!!
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2012-01-04 19:33
Hi Mandy,
I'm gonna insert a little positive moment for you. I think you could play this wonderfully given the right practice techniques.
First, know what notes each beat begins on. Then know how many you have to fit in to that for each measure. I use slash marks to visually represent this in my students' Rose etudes (particularly the slow ones) because it's very easy to forget how many of what you're looking at fits into a beat. It's really easy to slip between 16ths and 8ths if you're not paying attention to "how fast" what notes you're seeing go.
As far as interpretation and musical expression go, I think you're trying too hard to use rubato (usually a slight variation in tempo) as your main focus of expression. When you "feel" that the phrase should surge ahead, you rush and turn 8ths into 16ths, and vice versa.
Use dynamics and accents more for the expression first, then add any rubato that may be called for.
If you were my student, I'd actually play through this once with you so you could feel the difference in the rhythms!
Keep at it!
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-04 19:57
Again, I think that everyone's input is filled with insight and experience. I am very appreciative of the time people have taken out of their day to type a reply to my thread.
Having said that, I think we need to sit down at *my* country table, complete with checkered table cloth, and have a chat.
I will emphasize once more, for clarification, that I am not a performer, I do not claim to be a professional and I don't recall claiming that I work as a musician. I am an adult student, who's playing is obviously that of an adult student picking clarinet up after many years. I would like input, am *thrilled* by the suggestions I have received thus far.
Perhaps Johng can back me up, but Southern Colorado is a far, far cry from Philadelphia, New York or any major metropolis. My husband and I actually lived in West Chester, PA, for several years and we used to go to the summer concerts at the Mann Center for the Performing Arts. I was lucky enough to hear Itzhak Perlman perform. It was really wonderful! Philadelphia is an amazing city, a very cultured city.
I also had the opportunity to live in Washington D.C. for two years. Attended various concerts at the Kennedy Center. Again, amazing!
The point I am trying to make is that there is *no comparison* between large cities such as New York, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., or Denver for that matter, and the small communities of Southern Colorado. I am from Pueblo, population around 100,000. Kids here and in the *small* farming communities that surround Pueblo are not familiar with much beyond Southern Colorado and MTV. There are some very talented young people here. I know several young men that could go professional, I have no doubt. One is an oboist and the other is a clarinetist. They both amaze me awith their talent. I hope that they both use their talents and make the most of their lives!
I raised my eldest son (he is 13) in Philadelphia, Seattle, and Washington D.C. I had exposure to the parents and educators in these cities. The differences are night and day. Parents have the income in larger cities to fund expensive private lessons, league soccer, numerous summer camps. I payed $35.00/30 minutes for violin lessons for my son when he was 7. That fee would be laughed at here. Any private instructor charging that amount would starve in Pueblo, especially for young students.
There are few opportunities for professional musicians here; why would they be in Pueblo? I am not trying to argue that I should accept being a mediocre musician, that I should not progress. How can I teach students if I lack a firm understanding of music? But, do I need to be a "gigger"? No. I have a feeling that I do not need to play at the local bars in this town to be an adequate teacher.
I just *started* my degree. Just started playing my Noblet 27 again, the clarinet I played in highschool, that I marched with. Give me a chance. I feel that some people are horrified at the thought that I, a substandard player, would dare to teach kids to LOVE music!
Many of the music teachers in Southern Colorado are set to retire in the next 6 years. They will *need* someone to step up and take their place, to fight for music and art. I plan on being one of those people.
**EDIT** I have the mental faculties to understand instruction. If I am still a terrible musician with no understanding of music by the time I graduate, I would not attempt to teach ANYONE. I'd likely bow out long before that point and save myself some money if it was apparent that I am unable to master the skills needed to teach.
Post Edited (2012-01-19 23:15)
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-04 20:35
Katrina, Paul, Everyone,
Thanks!!!! I am going to work A LOT on this piece and re-record. I'll repost when I have addressed all of the issues that have been discussed here.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-04 20:40
Mandy,
"What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the (wo)man who instructs the rising generation." – Cicero
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Throwing something out there for the sharks to feast on is a difficult step to take; yet you also seem to wish to beat up yourself mercilessly (and humorously at times) in the posted clip. Why "punish" yourself twice? Finding the courage to post in the first place I assume took a lot, but you don't need to tell yourself "this sounds terrible."
I know you came here wanting not only some critique (already knowing your own "level"), but also help/guidance on where to go and how to get there. I assume you are looking for much more of the latter than the former, which was not the tract taken. That "burden" of finding what you need to hear to move forward falls on the rest of us; and if we cannot discover it then it is our fault, not yours.
Though I think your self-demeaning comments may make for a self-fulfilling prophecy, they are not totally without merit. ---They show you can hear when problems arise. Hearing that issues exist in your own playing is an essential skill in and of itself.... if you don't hear an issue exists, how can you know that it even needs corrected? From there, you/we can address it; as best as possible in a "virtual medium."
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In seeing that you have already received a plethora of advice on how to improve this etude as it stands currently, or that it shouldn't currently stand, I have some questions for you. (no pensabas que ibas a escapar tan facilmente?)
- When your teacher abstractly asks for better tempo/rhythm, pitch, and "musicality", what specific methods are suggested to obtain them?
- How do/did you approach the study/learning of this etude?
- In listening back to your performance, what general problems do you note? (Focus less on "this measure sounds poor" and look for general trends that run throughout.)
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Sometimes, looking backwards for this information can help you/us find a way to spur true improvement beyond the momentary "sign-post" your recording actually is.
y no fijate a los que te dicen "ya debes saber eso o esto." Yo conocí a una mujer que reinició estudiar cuando tenía más de 40 años. Ahora es una maestra/directora de un programa de alta calidad. Y además, toca el instrumento a un nivel más de 'muy aceptable'.
Sobre todo, el clima del mundo de los artes, o música en general, no sabe tu edad!
(mil disculpas por mi español. Aunque vivía en México por casi 5 años, no hablo con fluidez, todavía. que lastima.......)
-Jason
[edited for clarity]
Post Edited (2012-01-05 06:28)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2012-01-05 03:40
Jason's hit on something here: The goal of an applied teacher is to learn how to teach someone how to learn something on their own. In effect, when you take private lessons, you "rent" your instructor's ears once a week. They will ideally teach you to hear what they're hearing (both good and bad)!!! (At least, this is how I teach!)
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Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-05 06:33
Mandy,
(I cut and pasted this from the performer/teacher thread as it is diverting a bit.)
I can speak for no-one else but I found nothing about your etude "upsetting" in the least. I can hear what needs improved, as you can I am sure, but you really need to quit punishing yourself over those things. Your ability as a clarinet player does not define you as a person; you don't need to come here feeling "ashamed."
Furthermore I respect what you are doing, and even more so why you are doing it .....and I'm 33, so surely You cannot be old!!!
I had to leave my orchestral/conservatory job for health reasons 3 years ago (in a foreign country); even had to stop playing for a little over a year.
Now I find myself back in my hometown, where I haven't lived for 14 years, with no contacts to draw on- and a bad economy to boot. So, though our trajectories are different, I would say we are both in a similar "mental" state with what seems like an uphill climb in front of us (but not brick-wall.) When you feel like someone is pushing you down, push back.
and from my desk, if any sense of elitism was felt, I assure I did not intend it.
-Jason
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Author: Barbara
Date: 2012-01-05 14:34
Mandy,
It was really nice to see/ hear your video! I too am back after several years of lay off and I learned A LOT from all of the great responses to your post! Good luck and keep up the great work! I'll follow along! (BTW-Loved the comments as you were playing too, it sounded like me talking to myself in my head!!LOL)
Barb
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-06 06:35
I sat down with a metronome today and set it to 50. Slowly, I worked through the piece and I have improved already! I now see why the recording was so ill received!
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-01-06 11:15
Mandy, I think you'll be fine. I think maybe next time fix all the problems you are able, and then post. I think maybe the expectation was that a youtube video would show your best work. I just think it was a misunderstanding.
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-09 07:54
http://doublerbubbler.blogspot.com/2012/01/practice-notes-january-8-2012.html
Progress... I think. I hope. Not perfect, far from it in fact.
But I worked to correct tempo and rhythm.
If you have time, and are feeling generous, please listen and offer thoughts and advice.
Thanks,
Mandy
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2012-01-09 19:59
YES!!!
Your rhythm is noticeably better!
As for the breathing, I'd try using a breathing bag. It will do wonders for inhaling and exhaling and blowing and air support!
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Author: orbystander
Date: 2012-01-09 20:05
Yes, keep practicing. You will have major and minor breakthroughs as you continue. Some days you might want to throw away the horn and others you may hardly be able to put it down.
Your rhythm here is improved. I could hear the metronome in the background but that's ok IMO, it's a practice tool.
On measure 7 I noticed you were having some issues going over the break to c# on the 32nds. I'm wondering if there might be a non-break fingering for the c# like the b and the "right-hand 2nd-from-the-top trill key" which is easier in some respects though the tone and pitch might be a bit dicey, but after all they are 32nds. On the other hand, maybe you are supposed to be able to do that over the break at high speeds. Undoubtedly that would be good if you can pull it off. I would be interested in the "resident experts" weighing in on that here.
Update: I tried a new (to me) b to c# fingering on the break which might also in this instance be a good alternative to the standard c# fingering. It doesn't require moving the finger off the b tone hole.
Finger c# with the standard basic fingering but modify it by remaining on the b hole and leave the a hole as the open one instead of the b hole. The c# is marginally flatter but the continuity of sound is slightly better on my clarinet and the awkwardness of the break is lessened--just another idea.
-orbystander
Post Edited (2012-01-12 01:54)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2012-01-09 22:01
Hi Mandy - I agree that this sounded much better overall. With your first recording I thought that as a group we beat you about the ears a bit too much about the rhythm. One thing that bugs me are students who don't make everything they play into something beautiful. Yes, even scales and etudes. A person can get so caught up in being precise that the music dies and I hear you not allowing that to happen.
It was good to use the metronome, but towards the end you note how out of breath you were getting. A lot of that can be fixed by planning your breaths....and also an exhale or two helps with the breathing flexibilty. Using a metronome does not allow some musical pauses with which to get a breath.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: AC0FC
Date: 2012-01-11 20:32
I also live in Colorado Springs. I play in the local chapter of New Horizons Band under the direction of Ed Nuccio. (If the name sounds familiar, the acting New York Phil principal clarinetist, Mark, is his son.)
Ed taught misic education in Jr High (He says because you can still "teach" that age.) He plays and i think he also still teaches private lessons.
We also have a couple of fine clarinetists that could possibily point you towards their tutors.
You can either contact Ed directly (I think contact info is on the website) or you could drop by and see our band and talk to him in person.
http://nhbcosmusic.com/ The CALENDAR tab has info on where and when we meet.
I look forward to possibly meeting you,
Jay
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-13 21:46
Jay,
Thank you so much for the information!!!! I did play a short while with the Southern Colorado Community Band based in Canyon City, but my schedule did not permit my continuing. It was a great deal of fun. I have no doubt that the musicians that participate in the New Horizons Band are both talented and welcoming.
I think I will contact Ed directly. Maybe is can fit me in for some lessons. I would love that.
For the rest of the people on this board, I have posted my first oboe video on my blog. I would love your opinions. I have also posted on the oboe BBoard.
http://doublerbubbler.blogspot.com/
Again, thank you!
Mandy
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2012-01-14 04:51
Mandy, I give you a lot of credit for your hard work and for your dedication to music education!
I want to bring up a couple things that haven't come up in this discussion. Have you actually been accepted into the music education program, or is this something you're going to have to face later on? Some universities accept students as music education majors, but make them go through a weed-out/second audition/screening process at the end of the sophomore year. Music education majors who don't "make the grade" are not accepted into the education program. This often comes as a shock to students who think they've been doing just fine. It might be a good idea at this point to ask questions about this process if it occurs at your university.
I seem to remember that you posted last August about being required to march in the marching band. You mentioned long days of rehearsals. Is this something that you're going to be asked to do again this fall? Did marching band affect your playing last fall?
Marching band can be a wonderful experience, but will another year of marching set you back on your progress? I know this question will bring forth a variety of opinions. It wasn't a major setback for me (I marched with a tenor sax for a couple years because our band didn't march clarinets), but I honestly don't think my clarinet playing was at it's finest during marching season (with the endless hours of marching practice and the endless playing on game days). I've always been amused by the fact that college clarinet instructors often strongly tell their students not to march, while at the same time, the band directors strongly urge them to march!
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Author: MandyCarlsson
Date: 2012-01-19 23:26
Clarinetguy,
I actually did not end up marching this semster and I am trying to get out of the requirement entirely.
:)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-20 13:27
Mandy -
Your playing is much improved on your doublebubbler posting, but I do have a couple of suggestions.
First, you need to use a lot more air. Take smaller breaths and breathe about twice as often. This will stop the suffering when your remaining air gets stale and will also stop dizziness from hyperventilation. It will help your phrasing, too, since you tend to run phrases together. If it takes too much time to breathe, just insert a beat of silence. Long tones will help, too.
Second, you need to pay your dues with Baermann Book 3. Give it your best time, 10 minutes at the beginning of each practice session. That will give you time to get just one exercise perfectly smooth. Set the metronome at 60, one click per sixteenth, and think each finger movement, and hear each change, before you play it.
You might also get Jeanjean's Vade Mecum, which has invaluable exercises for getting your fingers under control. http://www.vcisinc.com/clarinetmusicstudies.htm item C610. It's expensive ($31.05), particularly for only 21 pages, but you can borrow a copy through your school's reference librarian, who can get an interlibrary loan http://www.worldcat.org/title/vade-mecum-du-clarinettiste-six-etudes-speciales-pour-lassouplissement-rapide-des-doigts-et-de-la-langue/oclc/223217543. The better alternative is to join the International Clarinet Society http://www.clarinet.org/, which has several copies you can borrow at no charge http://www.lib.umd.edu/PAL/SCPA/J.html.
Keep at it, and, once again, never go faster than perfect. You absolutely *can* do it.
Ken Shaw
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