 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: annev
Date: 2011-12-10 02:56
A few months ago I developed this problem where I periodically squeak (overblow) when playing the A just above the staff. It's not consistent - sometimes it happens for a day or two and then is fine again for several days. Sometimes it happens at the start of a session and then disappears and... sometimes not. Some things I've noticed:
- it's always at the start of a phrase, or in a run of staccato notes (if I slur the passage it's fine)
- when it's happening it happens whether I tongue or breath tongue
- I've watched in the mirror and I can't see any motion of my throat or jaw
- when I really focus into the music (feel the musicality of it) it often disappears
We've been trying different things in lessons, such as making sure my embouchure is staying relaxed, having my tongue release faster, checking that my fingers are coordinating with my tongue, etc. but still haven't found the solution.
I haven't had any recent changes in equipment (I use 3.5+ rue Lepic reeds on an M15 mp). Any suggestions would be really welcome (thank you)!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-12-10 12:23
Sounds like it may be a leaky pad (caused possibly by a tear in the fish skin of the pad itself) ....... the one just above your second left finger. Another possible problem would be the ring of your second left finger being too high (causing the tone hole not to seal) or the ring being too low (causing the pad not to seal) but that would not just start happening ...... I vote pad problem.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-12-10 12:37
You may have crud built up inside the register tube. Take the register key off, dip the end of a pipe cleaner in rubbing alcohol and run it through the vent. Then blow hard through the vent (from the outside) and run a silk swab through the bore to make sure no lint is sticking to the tube.
Adjust the height of the register key so that you can just slide a nickel under it when it's open.
Buffet A clarinets often have a "grunt" around A5. It's fixed by adjusting the length of the register tube, which is a job for a specialist.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-12-10 13:52
I'm going to suggest something really heretical. "...making sure my embouchure is staying relaxed" always raises red flags to me. That particular note, at least on Boehm clarinets, is notoriously unstable. I've always guessed it has to do with the relationship of the register vent to the location of the first hole that's open for A(5). When you think of *relaxing* your embouchure, there's a tendency to just let it go slack. The embouchure muscles can't exert control if they're held in a relaxed, non-assertive condition, but notes that are unstable, that A being among the worst, need to be controlled. The control comes not from biting directly against the reed but by forming a firm foundation around the reed against which its vibrations can be limited to what's wanted, using that firmness to apply the minimal amount of pressure needed to the reed to *control* it. Otherwise the reed gets to vibrate any way it "wants" to, and the instability of that length-node relationship seems to tend toward causing the air stream to divide and jump to a higher partial.
Obviously, I don't know what you think of or do when "relaxing" your embouchure, so this explanation may be way off-target and the mechanical possibilities Paul and Ken have suggested may well be the right explanation. But if the relaxation involves a lack of strength or firmness around the mouthpiece as you play, especially in that range, it may be that you're going in a wrong direction and making the squeaking tendency worse.
Karl
Post Edited (2011-12-10 15:36)
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Author: annev
Date: 2011-12-11 03:07
Thank you so much for your replies, they've given me some helpful things to work with. I'll keep the mechanical suggestions in mind because I do play an older instrument and it's been almost two years since I last had it checked over. But something you said, Karl, twigged a memory for me. This problem started around the same time that we working in my lessons on increasing resonance in the upper clarion notes (using more of an "ah" vowel for G to C above the staff). I did find the resonance and openess we were looking for, but may well have lost some needed support in the process. It would make sense - the A would come out well with during a slur, where the embouchure is more stable and supported, but might sometimes "split" at other times. And since then I have been going in the opposite direction, thinking that I might be needing more relaxation to eliminate the problem (!). I tried to experiment with it a bit this afternoon and found that when I increase the pressure of my lips around the mp, the A at the start of the phrase was more consistent. So I'll keep playing around with that concept for a bit, trying to balance firmness with openess, and see where it goes.
Thank you to all of you on this board with your insightful comments!
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-12-11 03:19
What reeds? Are the walls on your mouthpiece too wide or too thick? If possible can you post a pic of your MP and the post a pic with the reed on the MP, or you can post a pic or 2 at my email address.
I think I'd start with the mouthpiece and the reed combo and follow what the other people posted.I've seen some nasty looking mouthpieces with pretty bad rail measurements.
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Author: annev
Date: 2011-12-11 17:48
Bob,
The mouthpiece is a Vandoren M15. I tried out three different M15s in the store and they were surprisingly different from eachother. This one was the one that gave me the best response and which my (very patient) husband thought sounded best. I've been using it for almost two years with no problems (until recently). Initially I used traditional Vandoren 3.5s with the mp, but switched to 3.5+ rue Lepics about 8 months ago (I just liked the tone quality better). This problem started about three months ago...
I'm not sure if I know how to post photos to this board but I'll give it a try later on. If not I'll e-mail them directly. Thanks for having a look.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2011-12-12 10:55
Quote:
Buffet A clarinets often have a "grunt" around A5. It's fixed by adjusting the length of the register tube, which is a job for a specialist.
I fixed mine by putting extra bumper cork on the register key to reduce the amount of venting. That works, too, and is reversible/less invasive.
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Author: annev
Date: 2012-03-24 15:24
This has been a really difficult problem for me, especially since it's been sporadic, but I think I've finally figured it out and the problem seems to (finally!) be gone. I thought I'd post what I found in case the information is helpful for some one else.
The issue for me seemed to be mostly related to embouchure. As Karl mentioned above, the clarion A seems to be an unstable note and requires firmness without excessive tension. I noticed that sometimes my lip "thins out" along the reed when I have the problem of the sound splitting (it overblows). If I draw in a little more lip from the corners, so that the bottom lip is more fleshy, especially along the edges of the reed, the sound is always solid. It isn't just a question of drawing the corners of the mouth in though, because then I get too much tension and the sound suffers. So it's a balance of firmness with flexibility. The best marker for me is just feeling the bottom lip cushion along the edges of the reed, and then I know I've got it. (I hope that makes sense!).
The other thing that has been helpful for me was changing my mouthpiece. After some discussion Bob Bernardo, who is also higher up in this post, I had him send me one of his mouthpieces. Bob's mouthpiece, which carries the name, Ciaccia, is a really really lovely mouthpiece. It has a beautiful tone and excellent intonation and response. My teacher, who is a professional clarinetist, was very pleased with the mouthpiece also, and commented that it would be a great mouthpiece for a symphony player. The tip is more open then my M15, and I needed to get to used to that, but I'm finding a lovely range of dynamics and colours. The most helpful thing with respect to the problem with A is that the mp responds much more cleanly then my M15. I can still make it overblow on the A, if I try, but it is much less likely to do that then the M15. So with a combination of Bob's mp and a new awareness of embouchure, the problem with A just above the staff has finally stopped (thankfully!).
One side comment on mouthpieces - My previous two mouthpieces have been Vandoren series 13 profile 88 mps (they were a 5RV Lyre and an M15), which I used with a 64 mm barrel. Bob's mp tunes well with a 66 mm barrel, so I bought a second hand Moenig to go with it. One of the things I noticed was that the standard angle of Bob's mp is much for comfortable for me then the more sloped angle of the profile 88 mps. I don't know why Vandoren makes these series 13 mps with a profile 88 style! The other thing I noticed is that the throat E and F on my clarinet, which have always been slightly flat with the series 13 mps, are now in tune. I always thought it was a problem with my clarinet, but apparently not!
Thank you all so much for your help, and thanks Bob for a great mouthpiece!
Post Edited (2012-03-25 02:52)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-03-24 21:11
The fact that it doesn't happen all the time makes me think it's one of the upper pads is not sealing well. Have you teacher play it to see if he/she has the same problem. It could also be that you are slightly touching one of the throat tone keys without realizing it sometimes causing that to only happen once in a while only. You could also be voicing differently at times too. Have your teacher try it and have a tech check it out for leaks, have them look over the upper pads carefully to see if there's a small hole or crease on one of the pads that can cause this to happen only now and then. Only then will you know if it's you or the horn. I doubt it's the fault of the MP, if it were the problem would happen all the time and on different notes as well. A Leak, hitting a key, voicing-embouchure. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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