 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-11-10 01:07
Thinking about switching to double lip (at least for sit-down gigs) I was a little bored today and feeling like trying something new so I decided to use double lip for our concert band rehearsal today. Sounded fine, articulated and played fine. I think I'll continue experimenting with using it and maybe keep it double lip for sitting down and single lip for marching/standing.
If you haven't tried it, it removes some of the head vibration from the clarinet mouthpiece (much like a thick mouthpiece patch) and so I felt I could hear a little more clearly what I actually sound like. It was also very stable and produced a very stable thumb C and altissimo notes.
If you haven't tried it, give it a shot. I'm gonna check out Tom Ridenour's youtube videos on double lip and I know there's some frequent posters on here that use double lip.
Alexi
I also got a little bored waiting for drill band rehearsal so I watched a michele gingras podcast and tried out the "teeth on reed" to see just how high a pitch you get. Pretty high. High enough that others pleaded with me to stop. Dolphin-communication high. Kinda fun if you haven't done it. Some of the techniques and exercises she mentions in that podcast are an good and I can accomplish them, and then some of the others make my logical brain want to explode because it doesn't make any SENSE to hold one overtone while wiggling your fingers around and show them having NO effect on it at all. She musta been bored too at some point to figure THAT out!!!
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-10 03:42
Alexi,
I play double lip, but almost almost out of necessity, and not because it is inherently better or more correct than other methods.
Yet, what I do is quite different than the method that Tom Ridenour advocates. He does what he does, and that's fine; I do what I do for specific reasons. .....And also don't advocate double as "the way." It is just what I do naturally.
I think I wrote in a past post what I do (the method to my madness- or is that the madness of my method?) so I won't re-hash it unless so desired.
either way, hope it makes for some good tootin' for ya'
-Jason
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-10 03:51
Also, haven't seen her pod-cast, nor the dolphin call.
But as to why such a high partial would not be affected by moving fingers.
You are probably playing so high that you are approaching the natural frequency of the reed: the dominance of the standing wave in the bore, or the strength of the resonance in the oral/vocal tract, would be negated by the strength of the reeds' vibrations. i.e. you can finger whatever you want but it probably ain't gonna do much. (You have broken down the "functioning clarinet system" if you want to git all technical about it.)
Sorry, I'm in a weird mood tonight. and no I haven't been drinkin'
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Author: BobD
Date: 2011-11-10 11:37
Whatever works for you. I'm inclined to believe that double lip was the standard way.....when clarinets were played with the reed against the upper lip. The practice prevailed for quite a while after the reed was put on the bottom. Then some guy experimented with a new way.........teeth on top.....and it caught on. After a while everyone thought teeth on top was THE way and couldn't imagine why anyone would play any other way. Saxophones were never played with reed on top that's why THAT is the standard for saxes. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-11-11 17:06
Michele Gingras is great!
She was the master guest at CLARInexus at Eastern Washington University a couple of years ago.
Extremely creative in her clarinetting, her various set-u tricks and in her love for her students.
But, she is no fan of rehearsals. Must be all that klezmer!
Check out her vids, buy her book.
I use her 99-cent neck strap connector...
Bob Phillips
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-11-14 03:20
I've been playing double lip for many years, back in the 70's. My setup is different from Tom Ridenours. He uses a pretty thick patch on his mouthpiece.
I don't use a patch. For me the upper lip is a patch. Sound quality has never been an issue for me.
I spent a lot of time playing duets with Mitchell Lurie when he stopped by Rico. He often praised my sound. I have to say it's due to playing double lip and having strong upper muscles. Interesting story. Way back several years ago I fell and smashed my upper lip leaving a scar inside my lip. I always wondered if that helped with my sound!
I thing a patch may be of help to people that play single lip and may have a tendency to bite a bit or have uneven teeth. There's so many great players using the single lip setup, double lip may someday fade out. I think mouthpieces and reeds will change slowly through the years and maybe the double lip system won't work anymore. I'll probably be long gone by then, because changes are so slow with clarinets.
I do feel people with weak upper muscles or bite too hard should try it for practicing. I've never heard of this hurting someones sound.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-14 04:01
Again, I don't believe that any can claim either method inherently produces a better sound quality; or more important- flexibility. I use it pragmatically for my facial structure: and nobody can tell by sight, nor sound, that I do.
And as for my setup, I use what some would consider open mouthpieces by today's standards, and not "soft" reeds.
Generally 34 length with 1.12-1.16 tip. V12/blue box 4-5 with some adjustment.
Equipment doesn't always determine embouchure choice.
and no, I don't have any scar tissue in my upper lip. I push down enough with it that I lift my teeth away from the mouthpiece. While this may sound a difficult proposition for some- it happens quite naturally for me. I think 'oo' as a starting point with my lips, and everything else simply falls into place.
And this nothing like the way Tom Ridenour advocates the application of double-lip. He does what he does, I do what I do.
-Jason
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-11-14 07:40
I practice this out of a rather... petty reason. I don't like the idea of sticking a patch and biting on the thing, so I would rather use that upper lip to cushion the surface instead. I know that my teeth aren't supposed to sink into the curled up portion of the upper lips, yet I still would wear away my stamina doing this from time to time, as this pain-avoidance approach is not committed into muscle memory for one reason or another.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2011-11-14 12:26
My first teacher in 1939 taught me double lip. He was a trombone player so I guess maybe he thought double lip was the way to do it on clarinet. When I heard that others used single lip I tried it but couldn't stand the vibration on my teeth. Yes, I had a sore lip for quite a while but it toughened up.
Bob Draznik
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-11-14 12:32
That vibration through my upper teeth was the main reason I could never play without a patch when I played single lip. I still use a patch even with my upper lip tucked in because it gives me a little more traction (the mouthpiece beak can sometimes get slippery).
Karl
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