 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-10-01 14:23
In a recent thread, "...Airy Throat Tones" I believe, Ken shaw said,
>Almost everyone puts down extra fingers to increase resonance for the
> throat tones. Kal Opperman taught me to put down my right index and middle
> fingers for throat Ab, my left middle finger, right index and middle fingers
> and the low F key for A, and the two ring fingers and the low F key for Bb.
> These extra fingers lower the pitch a bit, so you must use a slightly
> shorter barrel or lip the pitch up.
I tried the above fingerings on my own R13, and they do play well. However, I would pose this question: I am still working daily on various scales. At my stage of training I use A. B. Albert and Pares more than Baermann III, and I normally just use traditional fingerings.
Since the above resonant fingerings Ken gave do sound significantly better, would you advise that I start practicing them in my scales practice, or just use the basic fingering as I have been, only using the resonant ones for particular musical passages? Is it not quite difficult to get the basic ones in your muscle memory, and then attempt the resonant ones for actualy music? When would you NOT use the resonant ones?
I'm just a lowly early intermediate, so bear with me please.
CarlT
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-01 15:49
Get used to using resonance fingerings in all instances when playing throat notes and make them part of your practice routine, especially in scale patterns as that will get you used to putting the right hand fingers down in preparation for going across the break instead of all fingers off-all fingers on.
I usually put RH fingers down from open G through to throat Bb, not only to add substance to them but also in preparation for going to the upper register. The amount of fingers you put down is up to you - you can put them all down if the upper register note you want is B, C, C# or Eb, but that all depends on the context and which note follows.
As with all practice, always start slowly to get used to finger placement and gradually increase the speed once you're fingers are doing the right things.
Here's how I'd play a C Major scale (bear in mind this is with a large bore Selmer, so your mileage may vary):
C - Th. xxx|ooo
D - Th. xxo|ooo
E - Th. xoo|ooo
F - Th. ooo|ooo
G - ooo|xxxF/C
A - A oooE/B|xxxF/C
B - Th. Sp. xxxE/B|xxxF/C
C - Th. Sp. xxx|xxxF/C
And part of an F Major scale going over the break:
F - Th. ooo|ooo
G - ooo|xxxF/C
A - ooo|xxxF/C
Bb - Sp. A ooo|xxxF/C (or Sp. A oox|xxxF/C to flatten it further)
C - Sp. Th. xxx|xxxF/C
And an E Major scale:
E - Th. xoo|ooo
F# - xoo|ooo
G# - G# ooo|xxxE/B
A - A ooo|xxxE/B
B - Th. Sp. xxx|xxxE/B
C# - Th. Sp. xxxF#/C#|xxx
D# - Th. Sp. xxx|xxxAb/Eb
E - Th. Sp. xxx|xxo
Basic tutor books never cover putting the RH fingers down when crossing the break and most only have a basic fingering chart, usually with one fingering for each note. Fingering charts only show the fingerings for the notes and not the fingerings that can be used when going from one note to another smoothly.
Only the other week I was showing someone who was having a lot of trouble going from throat A to upper register B how to cross the break smoothly. He didn't like the idea of putting RH fingers down simply because his teacher didn't teach him that and he thought his teacher won't approve of what I was showing him, even though it worked better for him!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-10-01 15:53)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: srattle
Date: 2011-10-01 15:51
I find that any particular fingering should be used depending on the circumstance. That means, you should be looking for a good intonation and also for the kind of color/sound you want in a particular moment.
For instance, using a lowered resonance fingering if you are the minor 3rd of a chord is going to be useless.
I tend to use resonance fingerings more for held notes, because I find that in faster passages they just don't blend as well with the surrounding notes. But that's just me, with my set up and clarinet.
Long story short, any fingering that might be useful is worth practicing, and worth getting used to early. If you don't, I'm sure you will kick yourself in the future
(example, when I was younger, I never really put any time into practicing the chromatic fingerings, and still to this day don't feel 100% comfortable when I use the sliver Eb/Bb, or the side F#, I kick myself for that all the time!)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2011-10-01 15:52
Good question, Carl. When I was working on an MBA our favorite answer to every question was , "Well, it depends". So I will now draw deeply upon my degree in business to provide this answer: It Depends. Since the resonance fingerings are a bit awkward if you are moving quickly, just use the standard fingering on faster scales. I use the resonance fingerings only on longer notes since one cannot tell the difference in tone when notes go by fast. I would suggest to you that your slow scale practice should use the resonance fingerings so they become automatic in such a way you can chose to use it or not "depending" on the musical situation.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-10-01 17:11
It depends a little (well, maybe more than a little) of your instrument's sound and response. In general I would either use no resonance fingerings at all for scales that are moving at a reasonable speed or close the same RH holes for all the notes from G through B-flat. I wouldn't try to find the ideal resonance fingering for each throat tone (which for slower sustained tones might not all be the same) and use them in a scale passage.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-01 17:30
Rather than calling them resonance fingerings, call them 'preparation fingerings' in this instance as they're RH fingers that are put down in advance or in preparation for the note or notes that follow when playing across the break in scalic passages.
The only book that sheds light onto this is Leon Goossens' book 'The Oboe' where he explains with markings on a stave where fingers are put down in advance or in preparation for a following note. It's a shame Jack Brymer's book ('The Clarinet') doesn't have a similar pictoral explanation, but he does go into detail of resonance fingerings.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vjoet
Date: 2011-10-01 17:44
Another source of pedagogic instruction in this is the Langenus Method.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-10-01 18:25
Every person, on different clarinets, could sound different using any combination of "resonance" fingerings. I only use a combination for my throat Bb because I like the way the others sound and play in tune. I like to get my throat tones to sound homogenous to the surrounding notes and that's the way I voice them. I've heard many players, especially students that use the fingerings their teacher tells them to use instead of listening to how it actually sounds, not sound so good using "resonance" fingerings. That's because they end up sounding so different then the surrounding notes that it's almost like they're changing reeds or mouthpieces on some notes than others. The bottom line is that you want them to sound good and in tune no matter how you play them. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
PS. I should add that sometimes a clarinet needs adjustments to make those notes sound better. A different barrel, raised or lowered keys, different type pads, undercutting, tape in a hole etc.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2011-10-01 18:31)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rdc
Date: 2011-10-01 18:58
I used resonance fingerings almost exclusively for many years, with the goal of making the throat tones match the notes around them, but I recently came across the concept of what Chris calls "preparation fingerings" in a book entitled "The Everyday Virtuoso" by Robert Chesebro and Todd Kerstetter.
I began to experiment with these, and soon decided that for open G the pitch change with RH fingers down was too noticeable on my clarinet, so in scales I use right hand down only for G#, A, and Bb. I do this in a deliberate way, much like Chris P has described:
RH fingers with F/C key: major keys of C, G, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db
RH fingers with E/B key: major keys of E, B, F#(Gb)
RH fingers alone: major keys of D and A
The minor keys are similar with just a few changes depending on the form of minor that is played.
For the keys of Db and Gb, I use the chromatic fingering when going from F to Gb (some clarinetists prefer the change from thumb F to first finger Gb instead), so I will not use the RH fingers on the Ab that follows Gb in those scales.
I still use the resonance fingerings for sustained A's and Bb's (and occasionally for G#'s). I think I was introduced to these by reading Jack Brymer's book shortly after it first came out years ago.
I would recommend practicing these fingerings until they are automatic, as John Gibson suggests, but be prepared to throw them out if a particular technical passage demands it!
Robert
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Cookson
Date: 2011-10-01 18:58
Another clarinet method which covers leaving fingers down when crossing the break is "Take Up the Clarinet" by Graham Lyons. Book 2 gets students playing "Over the Rainbow" with the middle section crossing the break to demonstrate how much easier this is with the right hand kept down.
Of all the method books I've used with students, "Take Up the Clarinet" is the one I keep returning to, as beginners seem to make really good progress with it. I'm always surprised it doesn't seem to be more widely used, even here in the UK...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-10-01 19:43
I have found in teaching young beginners that sometimes having their RH fingers down in preparation to "go over the break" makes the crossing less secure. Although it seems counter-intuitive to those of us who have already learned to do it, many beginners put their RH fingers down inaccurately when only preparing them. Maybe they have less awareness of those fingers' placement because errors have no audible bad consequence. When they eventually try to cross from A to B or B-flat to C they have no idea until the moment of truth that their RH fingers aren't all covering the holes. Sometimes these same students, when they put everything down at the same time, have a better rate of successfully covering everything.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2011-10-03 01:04
Ed wrote:
"I've heard many players, especially students that use the fingerings their teacher tells them to use instead of listening to how it actually sounds, not sound so good using "resonance" fingerings."
"Why do clarinetists believe everything except their ears?"
-Ben Armato
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-10-03 12:58
If it's too fast for resonance fingerings, it's too fast for the audience to notice. The only one I try to use all the time is for throat Bb, and for that I use the next-to-the-top side key whenever possible.
srattle makes an important point -- intonation is more important than resonance. You can always blow harder, even on the "pinch" Bb. See "An Interview With Sidney Forrest" http://www1.woodwind.org/the-online-clarinet-resource/james-gholson/interview-with-sidney-forrest.html.
It's possible to add resonance be pulling our lower lip out and down, leaving only about half of the red part (or even less) over your teeth, and also by voicing for a brighter sound by varying your mouth cavity. These require preparation, so, once again, you use them only in slow passages.
Finally, you make your decision based on whether the note is on a strong or weak beat.
And sometimes you don't want extra resonance, but want instead to blend with another instrument or disappear into a unified woodwind sound. See http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=94788&t=94788.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-10-03 17:01
As for putting RH fingers down in preparation for going over the break, I found there is mention of this later on in Jack Brymer's book on page 184 (around 100 pags after he mentions resonance fingerings). For those who don't have the book, here's the paragraph:
The fingering aspect of the 'break'. At this point, and before leaving the important subject of the break in the registers, it is necessary to stress the fact that, here especially, adhering to the normal chart of clarinet fingerings is the worst possible method. To play A natural with the index finger of the left hand alone, as shown, and B natural with all the fingers and one thumb, i uneconomical, dangerous, unmusical and unintelligent. The crossing of the break from any note on the upper joint to any other note on the lower joint should involve the use, when playing for instance A natural or B flat, of as many fingers of the right hand as are convenient for the second note, so that they are there and ready for the jump. This is quite independent of the fingerings dealt with in Chapter 5 as artistically necessary [referring to the use of resonance fingerings]. It is a question of mechanics only at this stage, but it is a technique to be learnt at this point.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-10-05 01:51
There is a difference between using fingers down for going over the break in a technical passage and using them for resonance in a melodic passage. I repeat my belief that one needs to use ones ears and do what sounds the best and sounds as close to the notes you're coming from and or going too. You don't want to make a throat tone "stick out". ESP
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-10-05 05:00
After some years, I've gotten to where I can apply resonance fingerings routinely to the throat Bb and A, so they are no longer a problem.
BUT, a recent change in the way I'm voicing (tongue high in back) has cleared up the A, so that now I'll probably soon try to quit "fixing it up."
It's always something.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
