 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-09-25 19:44
There's a new clarinet professor (an amazing player) that I am now currently studying with who has requested that I figure out a way to solve an air problem.
What she wants is an arch-like high tongue in the "ee" position, and that when I am blowing air through it that I should get a high-pitched sound (kind of hard to describe, sorry). I think I'm probably the only person in the studio that hasn't been able to get this down - my professor told me that this problem is typical with those who speak Asian dialects, but it is solvable - I just haven't figured out how to solve it yet.
I've tried words such as "speak," "squeak," etc. to try to get my tongue in the correct position, but, alas, no success. Any tips on as to how I can solve this problem?
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: dtiegs
Date: 2011-09-25 22:10
I speak 3 Asian dialects... Am I apart of this too? ... Could I blame this reason for my mediocre tone?
How did you like the Ridenour Lyrique? What are your thoughts on it and it being compared to the R13?
Apologize for going off topic.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-09-25 22:21
I had this problem and just recently solved it on my own. I think this will be one of those "aha" moments once you figure it out.
What I did and still do, is I attempt to keep the back of my tongue in constant contact with my top molars. This keeps the left and right part of the back of the tongue up high. It also keeps it very still if I try to keep the SAME part of the tongue in contact with my molars. Then the front part of the tongue dips lower. Maybe that visual or trying to do that will help you.
You can also open your mouth and put your entire tongue on the roof/upper part of the mouth. Then start "peeling" your tongue downwards starting with the tip working your way backwards (think of it making a smooth "wave" or how a ripple would look in a lake) Then you can see how the back of your tongue can stay high while the front of your tongue can go low.
Alexi
PS - I think it takes different people different ways to visualize and finally figure out this concept, but once you figure it out, you'll be able to do it EVERY time. You'll be able to almost SEE the lightbulb go on in your head as you FINALLY realize the concept.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-09-25 22:32
I think the idea that Asians can't get a good clarinet tone is nonsense. Go on YouTube and listen to Han Kim, for example.
Also, "speak" and "squeak" are the wrong vowels. They raise the middle of the tongue, not the back.
Try raising the back of your tongue so your uvula gurgles off of it. Then raise your soft palate (as when you yawn) to stop the gurgling. Think of your tongue as a ski-jump ramp that the air rushes down.
I'm told that Korean has vowels nearly identical to Italian, which is one reason there are so many fine Korean singers.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-09-25 23:41
Ken Shaw wrote:
> I think the idea that Asians can't get a good clarinet tone is
> nonsense. Go on YouTube and listen to Han Kim, for example.
>
I don't think the teacher said Asians couldn't get a good tone, only that the vowel position of the tongue she's after is less indigenous (so more difficult) to Asian languages than it is to, I suppose, European ones.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-09-25 23:56
As someone who has come across this "high tongue" concept only relatively recently and was not taught it in any explicit sense (except as a way to produce altissimo harmonics), I have wondered sometimes how wide or narrow the lineage for it is.
I have found it implied in Bonade's Compendium couched in terms of the French 'u' which is similar to the German 'u' with an umlaut, or "ue," both of which are produced more or less by pronouncing "eee" inside the mouth and "ooo" with the lips. That isn't a sound native English speakers (Americans or, I think, British) need to produce as part of their normal speech patterns, so we almost certainly got the idea from European teachers early in the last century. I'm not even sure that sound exists in Italian or Spanish. I wonder if the high tongue is part of the approach that Russian teachers brought with them.
So, while I have adopted this approach and like the effect it produces, I wonder how universal it is worldwide, even among *established* American, European or Asian players.
Karl
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-09-26 03:23
Karl (kdk) is right on with what my professor has told me; I have tried to imitate the ΓΌ sound, which is "ee" for the tongue position and "oo" for the lips.
@dtiegs: I've been impressed with the Lyrique from the start; I've had it for a year now.
@sfalexi: I'll definitely try your ideas. Thanks.
@Ken Shaw: Karl is correct about the tone comment. Thanks for your input.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-09-27 23:08
I just had my lesson with the prof. today; she said that my tongue position looks correct, but I'm still not able to get the high-pitched air out. Any other suggestions? (I'll be using a flashlight and mirror tonight...)
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-09-28 01:24
What exactly is it in your *clarinet* sound that she's trying to fix by focusing on the pitch of the air you blow?
Karl
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-09-28 04:48
I believe it's mainly to focus the air, and to make sure that the air is at the correct pressure/speed.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-09-28 10:28
But (not trying to pick a fight with *you*) you're still talking about air. What about your clarinet sound? What is she trying to change? What's the reason why having you change this air concept is important? What improvement is the teacher trying to accomplish in your *playing?*
Karl
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