 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CAM
Date: 2011-08-04 23:13
Hi. I’m a 70 year old female Bb clarinet player. I play a Buffet R12, VanDooren B45 mp and Legere #2 reed. This has worked fine until I started playing dixieland and then my lower lip became unbearably sore. I had a professionally constructed guard made for my lower teeth, but I stilI can only play for about an hour before it starts hurting and then it takes a week to feel better. I use Vitamin before and during performances. I tried every type and size of reed and am very comfortable and relaxed with this one…at least, I was, until this happened. I gave up Dixie. I now play concert and swing. Help!
Post Edited (2011-08-05 14:20)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-08-04 23:19
Well, if it's only Dixieland (and not "concert and swing") that causes the problem, then you must be doing something different when you play it. Maybe you just spend more time in the clarinet's more stratospheric range and you're biting more to control it. Or maybe it's something else you're changing. Some careful self-analysis may lead you to the problem on your own. Once you find what's different, you can look for ways to solve the problem.
Karl
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-08-05 01:55
? my lower lip became unbearably sore
the lip itself, not the place inside the mouth where the lower teeth come in contact with the gums?...
I'm thinking you're talking about your gums b/c how would the guard you had made for your lower teeth protect your lower lip
...single lip embouchure?
...vitamins??...topical ...oral....elaborate...
..is the pain constant after playing, or only when trying to play again within
a week?
..everything Karl said about "what's different about your Dixieland playing"
depending on your willingness to discuss this in an open forum, any age related illness---diabetes...(i.e. healing difficulties)
when did you start playing Dixieland music...
..do you take prophalaxis 80mg/daily coated aspirin, other blood thinners...?
Anything change about your setup (pun intended) including components of YOU, the 70 year old person, or your clarinet?
if there's medical issues--best to consult with your physician or at leat take the conversation off the bboard in the interest of your privacy.
With hopes of having joy from playing..not pain...
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Author: CAM
Date: 2011-08-05 02:13
thank you for your responses
no changes in anything - health related or otherwise
except started playing dixie and as suggested, most always in upper register was more difficult to play - much easier on lip to play swing and concert music
both lower lip and "place inside where teeth touch"
single lip embouchure
topical vitamin e
pain eases a couple of hours after playing but stays sore for about a week
just thought there might be a new combination that would make it easier on a sore lip and allow me to play more - perhaps a different mp ?
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-08-05 16:24
These oral pain/outer lip issues seem to be cropping up a lot lately on the bboard.
One prior "question submitter" agreed to polish his (cane) reed to smooth it out (suggesting an abrasion related injury as opposed to pressure based)--but Legere's, as you report playing---for all the pros and cons of such reeds that have been reported extensively on the bboard prior---I think nobody will disagree that such reeds are physically SMOOTH to the touch reeds.
Maybe, in the way Guy's (Legere) reeds don't absorb water as wood cane does, too much fluid is remaining on you lips and causing chappng/contact dermatitis(???)
This is not in any way meant negatively towards the Legere family of products. I utterly respect Guy's work. I'm just saying this specific to your case.
Finally, consider acquiring either adhesive backed (thin) foam or felt to place on the reed at the point where the lower embouchure is formed. This might reduce irritation and pressure, while also drawing away saliva.
Good luck!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-08-05 18:06
As I read Carole's question (if not from the topic title alone), she's talking about soreness inside the lip (where the bottom teeth contact it). The other thread that you're referring to asked about soreness on the exterior of the lip where it contacts the reed.
Karl
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Author: mrn
Date: 2011-08-05 18:44
I would experiment with different reeds to see if you can't fix the problem that way.
To play up high, you need a sufficiently stiff reed to get decent response. It could be your reeds are too soft, and you're somehow biting in an effort to compensate for that.
There are two reasons why this might be the case. One is that you simply need a higher-strength reed (like a 2 1/2).
The other, though, has to do with the way Legere reeds behave. I don't have a whole lot of experience with them (although I have tried them in the past). I have noticed (as well as some other players, according to the Legere website) that they have a tendency to soften up after you've played on them for a while (about an hour or so). It probably has something to do with the fact that, in general, solid objects tend to lose their stiffness when heated, since when you let the reed sit and cool off, it regains its strength.
So, if you like your Legere #2s, what I would try doing is keep more than one of them in your case so you can swap them out after about 45 minutes or so. That way, they never have the chance to get all that limp. See if that works.
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Author: CAM
Date: 2011-08-05 19:59
I love the Legere reed. I never thought about it softening or to change it midway through the session...will certainly try that. Thanks so much. : )
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Author: CAM
Date: 2011-08-05 20:03
Thanks so much...will try the felt / foam idea as well as changing it part way through the session.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-08-06 00:49
no Karl...our questioner is talking about---to use her words when I sought such clarrfication above and she responded....
"both lower lip and place inside where teeth touch"
hence her concerns are both insider her mouth, and like the prior poster you reference, outside as well. Not just where the bottom teeth make contact with the inside of the mouth as you report.
Food for thought: sometimes we're best off digging at our questioners for more detail, not our fellow responders, particularly when we have, apparently, sooner found fault with their reponses that bothered to read the thread carefully.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-08-06 02:02
Russ, if the responses on this board consisted exclusively of direct responses to the original poster, it would be a very different place indeed, and robably a lot duller. Discussions and even disputes among responders sometimes (though probably not in this case, I'll admit) lead to insights that might otherwise have been missed.
Although I can now see that your reading of Carole's response to your question probably did mean that she was having pain in both the outer and inner portion of her lip, it was not how I read it when she posted it. I had in fact read the entire thread. That I misread her answer to you may reflect carelessness on my part - you've apparently decided that it does. But my clarification wasn't the result of not having read the thread through.
Some dessert to follow the food below: this board is moderated very ably by a couple of very savvy and, fortunately, tolerant people - Mark and Glenn. It isn't your place or mine to say what's appropriate in the posts here. So, at the risk of repeating the menu of food for thought to which I'm objecting, sometimes we're best off just going on with the discussion and not trying to lecture or dictate to each other what we may or may not, or should or should not do. 
Karl (who signs his posts)
ThatPerfectReed wrote:
>
> Food for thought: sometimes we're best off digging at our
> questioners for more detail, not our fellow responders,
> particularly when we have, apparently, sooner found fault with
> their reponses that bothered to read the thread carefully.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-08-06 04:59
Karl:
"Sorry, I made a mistake" would have been better, terser and sufficient for you to say Karl, IMHO. And things would have stopped there.
After all we all make mistakes.
In reply:
1st paragraph: I think its points are irrelevant--you appear to agree as you so much as all but say that the very justifications for discussions and dispute that helps improve this bboard "probably" don't apply in this case. "Probably?" We weren't debating the merits of some "manufacturer's ligature" where in the spirit of discussion, readers were presented with the positive byproduct of a maximum amount of information from those in the know on which to make an informed decision for purchase. This is about you misreading. And that's okay. Then you decided to wrongly correct me. And that's okay too. As we all make mistakes. Just see the 1st paragraph for a better way, IMHO, to handle that.
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2nd paragraph: I asked the questioner above in response to the initial post:
> the lip itself, not the place inside the mouth where the lower teeth come in contact with the gums?...
the poster responds
both lower lip and "place inside where teeth touch"
and you conclude that this "probably did mean [pain in 2 places]?????"
I think the rest of this paragraph is also irrelevant...bottom line, for whatever reasons--and I don't need or care to know--and not b/c I accused you of failing to read this post in its entirety, you got the 411 wrong. And that's okay. Just see the 1st paragraph for a better way, IMHO, to handle that.
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3rd paragraph:
I've never taken issues with the moderators anymore than I think they need be bothered with determining what I think are some of the basic rules in any of life's "sandboxes."
And one of those rules, I believe, is that if you're going to publically correct others and be wrong (you), and it's pointed out to you in tones likely much politer than I suspect you might have used were the situation reversed (I deduce this from how you, the wrong one, conducted yourself above), then just say you're sorry in the same forum you made your mistake. Nothing more or less.
And yet, I wonder if you'll ignore that advise as swiftly as you take issue with the best practices and solid advise I gave you last thread about probing questioners for details to better answer their questions, (i..e to make this site the best it can be) rather than wrongly correcting reponders for flaws.
Then you go on to say:
"sometimes we're best off just going on with the discussion and not trying to lecture or dictate to each other what we may or may not, or should or should not do. "
I think you wrongly throw the very stones you advise others against, suggesting those, who didn't throw such stones, that they not throw them going forward?
IMHO I'd find it hard to fathom that someone critical, who can't even admit he's wrong, would chose the tranquil route if someone wrongly took issue with his ideas. And I don't think people who find fault with the errors of their critics, and point them out, as I did, if not patronizingly, then at least not offensively, disobey your advise. IMHO, my tone, as wrongee, was and is better than yours of wrongor.
You also say it's best we let the moderators decide what's appropriate. But aren't you telling me just above what's sometimes best off that we do here..when you didn't do it for me no less?
If we took this advice of yours, might this board become a "very different place indeed, and [p]robably a lot duller?"
Don't, as you say, "discussions and even disputes among responders sometimes...lead to insights that might otherwise have been missed."
Sir--I respectively think you've contradicted yourself.
IMHO, if your above advise has validity, I think it's because when you put POLITE people together that enjoy sharing their love for the clarinet, and encourage others less knowledgeable, in open, accurate, respectable and honest debate, by answering their questions--even those of the novice asked here 1000 times before, you complete the cycle of student, practice, perform, and teach.
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Karl, have you heard the expression, "if you can't attack the message, attack the messenger?" What about any of my points, here or in prior threads, has been diminished by my failure to type (not sign as you indicate) my first name "Russ," otherwise publically available to all board members, as is my last name and email address?
What remarks have I added to this board that were hurtful, inaccurate, biased, or in possession of conflict of interest simply because I didn't include my (first) name? How have the validity of my remarks been enhanced by typing my readily accessible first name below?
I ask sir, that if you wish to reply, barring simple apology, that we take this offline from this point on.
Thank you,
Russ
so yourself --because sa you also imply, this wasn't a disussion or dispute. You claim you misread fact but was quicker to wrongly find fault in others than blame yourself. That's not open for the spirit of debate your describe.
your 2nd and 3rd paragraph:
Are you kidding me? You pointing out what you think is other people's errors, when in fact you're wrong, and that's ok. But when the accused points out your mistakes in such matters that's a problem. C'mon, we weren't debating the efficacy of "one ligature versus another," where opinions vary.
We don't need our moderators to tell us that when you wrongly correct others that then point out your errors
> But my clarification wasn't the result of not having read the thread through.
Never accused you otherwise. Also irrelevant.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-08-06 05:00
I apologize for that below my name. It's called a first draft that got toned down in the interest of the bboard and the golden rule.
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