 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-08-03 08:19
Hi everyone,
When I take a small break from playing, say a week, and I play the same reeds that haven't been touched for that week, I usually get a throat or sinus infection. I assume this is because bacteria is thriving in filthy reeds. This usually means more time off playing and perhaps a course of antibiotics which my body could do without!
Does anyone know a decent way of cleaning reeds or, even better, simply preventing this from happening? I am so careful with oral hygiene, the vast majority of time ensuring that I have brushed my teeth before playing etc.
Any useful insights appreciated!
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Author: salsacookies
Date: 2011-08-03 08:50
There is this spray that you can by that is a disinfectant specifically for mouthpieces and stuff. It has a bit of an alcoholic taste, but it should keep the germs to a minimum.
http://shop.weinermusic.com/ROCHE-THOMAS-SANIMIST-MOUTHPIECE-DISINFECTANT-8-OZ-MI-T-MIST/productinfo/SNMST8/
My setup
Leblanc Legacy Bb with grenadilla barrel and bell, B45 w/Optimum lig.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-08-03 12:31
A slosh in Listerine should do the trick. Works on mouthpieces too.
Tony F.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-08-03 13:26
I'll read the label on my Listerine when I get home - I imagine it would have colours and sugars added to it!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-08-03 13:27
I guess it could bother some people but I think most bacteria dies in a few days but I could be wrong in certain environments, especially if it's damp. I rotate several reeds, at least 8 on each instrument and have never had that problem even when I take a week or two off. I may only have GOOD germs. The above recommendation is probably good, any mouthwash that says it kills germs will work, or a little peroxide and water or even a shot of whisky.
(for the reed, not you :-) ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-08-03 14:34
What Ed said, but for heaven's sake, save the good stuff for drinking!!!
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2011-08-03 15:34
How are you so sure that your illness is caused by bacteria or virus from the reed? How careful are you about washing your hands: (1) when you enter your house; (2) after you touch another person; (3) before you touch your face, lips, or eyelids; (4) before you touch food or any knife, fork, or spoon, or glass, when you eat out? Are you certain that your illness derives from bacteria or virus, as opposed to allergy. Do you have an otherwise compromised immune system that makes you more sensitive than others to bacteria and viruses?
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Author: stebinus2
Date: 2011-08-03 22:11
You're probably not reinfecting yourself with colds you've already had because every cold you get has a different genetic signature and once you've had a particular cold you have developed an immunity to that strain and can never be infected by that particular one again. That being said I keep my reeds in the fridge when not in use. Keeps down the growth of not only bacteria that might make you ill but also bacteria that would break the reed structure down faster. I also wet them with water rather than saliva before using and rinse them with water and wipe them off after every use. My reeds do last a long time.
Post Edited (2011-08-03 22:14)
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-08-05 09:53
Well I don't think it's something I'm catching out in public etc. because it happens EVERY TIME I play on reeds I haven't played for about a week. And I'm not catching colds, I'm getting throat or sinus infections.
The answer is pretty obvious to me now: Whenever I take a break from playing, open a new box of reeds and clean mouthpiece first!
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-08-05 13:47
Since cane reeds are porous, I wonder just how much they can be sterilized. Have you tried Legeres?
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-08-05 17:27
Reeds in the Vandoren clam-case thingo, and mouthpiece in BAM double case, no lig or cap on it.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2011-08-05 19:33
I'm not a physician, but I was told by a doctor once that one way to tell if you're dealing with a bacterial sinus infection is to see if it associated with greenish or brownish/tannish mucus. If your mucus is clear, it's probably not bacteria (it's more likely allergy). Sometimes you can get a sore throat from allergies, so it can be hard to tell the difference.
One thing that you can do that would probably help prevent either of these problems (allergy or infection) would be to rinse your reeds in water after you use them. That would remove a large portion of the surface allergens and microbes, I would think.
After you rinse them, I think it's a good idea to dry them as thoroughly as you can, squeezing out whatever water may be left in the reed. I always store my reeds in a way that will let them dry out thoroughly in a relatively short period of time. If you deny the bacteria water, it might not necessarily kill them, but I would think it would at least keep them from growing.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-08-05 20:03
Could you have grown some kind of mold in the Vandoren reed case? It might not even be infectious, but if you're allergic to it, it could explain your reaction. I don't know if mold can grow on the charcoal capsule they use to control humidity, but if you haven't ever changed it, that might be an avenue to consider.
I think the bottom line of the responses you've gotten is that, whatever is going on, yours seems to be a unique situation, which strongly suggests it isn't as simple as infectious bacteria lying in wait on the reeds or we'd all have experienced it at some point. That it happens to you with such regularity and seemingly doesn't happen to others who have responded seems to imply this isn't a usual or typical issue for most players.
Maybe try cleaning the reed case thoroughly with vinegar or alcohol (or one after the other) and replace the charcoal cartridge or, for the sake of experimentation, buy a completely new, presumably clean reed case. Then (at the risk, I suppose, of not having solved the problem) try again to store reeds and come back to them.
Karl
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Author: DougR
Date: 2011-08-06 13:31
This is a post that cries out for Doctor Henderson, or anyone else familiar with chemical/bacteriological processes as they act upon reeds. I guess I'd want to know if you have a definite formal diagnosis of "throat or sinus infection," (i.e., from a doctor) or are you just assuming that's what it is. Second, I'd want to be precise about the time lapse from playing the "infected" reeds to onset of the symptoms, since bacterial infections and/or allergies have different incubation periods. (It's remotely possible you're having an allergic reaction to....well, who knows.) The question to ask is, whether it's an infection or not, what else COULD it be? (A question, I'm told, that we should ALL be asking our doctors when they pronounce a definite diagnosis relating to symptoms we're having--in other words, a polite way of saying "Let's not overlook anything, doc!")
Personally, I'd start with a formal diagnosis, so I'd know exactly what I'm dealing with. The cure would suggest itself from there, I think. (If it's worth asking the Board about it, it might be worth following up medically. Who wants to be sick all the time?)
Simplest thing is to try it YOUR way first, see if it helps. If not, call a doc or an allergist.
My own ritual with wetting reeds (and it's really only a ritual, since I don't know for sure it works) is to wet reeds only 1/3 of the way down from the tip, in lukewarm tap water, for EXACTLY 45 seconds, and let them sit on a flat surface for a minute or two while the wavy tips even out, and when done with them, swish them around in the same tap water (which contains chlorine) and pinch-dry them, then let them sit out until completely dry. YMMV, as they say around here!
Morrigan, please let us know how it works out!
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-08-07 13:42
OK, to be specific:
Doctor-diagnosed throat and sinus infections, with antibiotics prescribed each time. Sometimes infection reaches my ears.
Last time between playing reeds and re-infection: 6 days.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-08-07 14:12
Still, this doesn't seem to be a problem commonly experienced by other players. My suspicion would remain on the reed holder rather than the reeds themselves. The transmission could be moisture related, and if you and I are talking about the same reed holder (clamshell, hard plastic, blue - holds four reeds and has a cartridge of activated charcoal in it), it's designed to retain a certain moisture level in the reeds. I don't know what effect the charcoal has on bacteria or mold, to limit them or grow them, but any of these organisms thrive in dark, moist environments. Try letting the reeds dry out and remain dry during storage (in some other case that allows more access to air) until you start using them again. That may be enough to destroy whatever it is you're reacting to, or at least prevent it from growing to levels that make you sick. Maybe give them a quick spritz of alcohol-based germicide for good measure before drying and storing them.
It would be a shame to throw out all old reeds and start fresh every time you leave the instrument alone for a few days - it's always a pain to have to start with all new reeds and none that are are already broken in.
Karl
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-08-07 15:56
Two thoughts:
1)
Were it mold in the case, as previously suggested, the isopropyl alcohol active ingredient in the aforementioned posts on sterilizing mists may be of limited value.
Wikipedia on Rubbing Alcohol (i.e. topical isopropyl alcohol--that which we'd expect to find in the aforementioned misters I strongly suspect):
"...As an antiseptic it is good against vegetative bacteria and fair against fungi and viruses, but is ineffective against spores...."
2)
We're fortunate to have a Harvard ENT (ear nose throat) doctor on the board. I'm hesitant in bothering this busy man, but if you're really "pulling your hair out," one of us could contact him.
Feel better.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-08-07 17:46
It's the plain Vandoren reed case - no humidity control. And I live in London, so humidity isn't a problem. Seriously I'll just play on new reeds and I shouldn't stop playing for 6 days at a time, very naughty!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-08-12 01:22
Take the holder apart - pull the insert out of the container, and see the length of the "tracks. Possibly you have mold on the inside covered part of the tracks (where the tip is!)
Alcohol swab like what the Doctor puts on your arm before he injects work very well to clean reeds on the fly. The Vandoren inserts don't add, only remove moisture I'm pretty sure.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: pewd
Date: 2011-08-12 02:42
throw the reed case away.
buy a totally different brand - try a plastic vito 4 reed 'reedguard'.
every student' i've seen using one of those vandoren reedcases has issues with mold. get rid of it.
leave the clarinet case open at night, let it dry out.
don't store the swab inside the case with the horn, store the swab in an outside accessory compartment, or draped over a music stand so it dries out overnight.
good luck.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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