 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: klook
Date: 2011-07-22 16:18
This is for the repairmen/women out there.
I've been messing around with repairing clarinets for a number of years now, my tool collection has been growing steadily and my work is getting better and better.
I'm in a position to make an investment in some more costly tools that I think would really help improve my repair work. I'm wondering what the seasoned folks can tell me about what is really necessary and what is not needed.
The tools all deal with two areas of repair, and these are areas that I often come across in my repairs working on mostly old Albert clarinets: chipped toneholes and loose keywork.
So first:
Swedging. Should I get a pair of the pliers that allow you to do many size rods? Or, a few of the smaller narrower pliers? If so which ones?
How about the collet tool from Ferrees? Do I need pliers and this tool?
Second:
Pivot screw counterbores: which sizes would I need? Ferrees sells a whole set but I'd hate to buy them all if I only need a couple.
Third:
Tonehole repair: now I use plugs and gule/grenadilla dust and file as even as I can. Can I get away with just making toppers with flat steel/brass rod and sandpaper?
I see Ferrees sells these tonehole files that are rounded, 4 sizes, are these handy?
Do I need a tonehole counterbore? The Reg Thorp manual says to fill the chip, use the topper, then cut a sharp edge with a counterbore but I can't find anyone selling a counterbore.
Any thoughts would be awesome. I'm totally ready to plunk down some money on good tools that will be used, but I'm very curious about what ya'll might have to say about what is needed and not needed.
I've got 75 or so old Albert system clarinets here that I plan on overhauling in the next few years! I know its an obscure passion but I love these old clarinets.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-07-22 16:29
It might be helpful to take a look at this "group" on Yahoo:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/musical_instrument_technician/
Bob Phillips
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-22 17:00
Tonehole cutters aren't completely necessary unless you really need them (ie. if you're planning on recutting toneholes on a lot of instruments), but they come in all widths and different profiles which may not always be suitable. You can get away with most tonehole repairs by filling, carving and topping toneholes by hand. The inside edges of the toneholes can be tidied up with spherical or tapered reamers.
You'll also need specialist machinery to use them with - a fairly large pillar drill with a specially made bed where the joint is held between centres and can be locked solidly in place to be able to cut the toneholes properly - something that won't move about while you're cutting them as the cutters will have the tendency to try to throw things about when they get going. If you can find tonehole cutters with a ^ profile of various widths, then that's all you'll need to do clarinets with as you can finish the inside with a spherical/tapered reamer and a tonehole topper (and filling in where necessary). Oboe bedplace cutters are specially shaped to cut out the inside, then the toneholes are drilled well within the crown.
The only times I've ever used tonehole cutters on clarinets are when I've bushed toneholes, cut new toneholes that weren't there before (the extra vent hole on LH forked Eb/Bb mechanisms) or countersunk the C#/G# tonehole on a Couesnon clarinet - other than that I've never needed to use them. But I used the machinery at Howarth's factory to do this.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2011-07-24 01:10
The two most common sizes of pivot counterbores are .100 (Selmer) and .110 (Buffet). I run across an occassional .095 (top joint Selmer)and .105. I imagine if your doing older Albert system instruments you probably will see most anything. I would order as I needed by measuring the pivot head with a digital caliper or other measuring device. I threw my old Ferree's away after I got my Kraus set. Yes, they are expensive but good tools make money not cost money.
I agree with Chris P on the tone hole issue. The three piece set with handles (the old Eric Brand set) from Ferree's is good to get out small chips from the edges but if used aggressively can get you in trouble. I use them seldom and when I do just take a couple of turns and then run them anti-clockwise to burnish. Don't waste your money buying the ones that don't have handles. They tend to chatter and make a bigger mess than what you started with.
The collet tool from Ferree's is used best in a small bench vise. It expands the tube rather slowly so patience is needed. I use my swedging pliers more often. I find using several different pliers is better than the one they sell that has different holes drilled into it. One can't get to some key ends because of the design. There is a maker of specialty woodwind pliers, Marius Kowalski. I think J.L. Smith sells some of his pliers. Marius doesn't sell online and you would have to contact him directly. Send me an offline email and I'll send you his imformation if you want.
Post Edited (2011-07-24 01:12)
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Author: klook
Date: 2011-07-24 01:59
Thanks so much for all the info so far, very helpful!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-07-24 05:55
For tone holes, I have the set from Boehm which is a type of hand tool for small finishing of tone holes. Others (Ferree's, Allied maybe) sell pretty similar tools. This is 14 sizes of files. I think these and the similar tools from other companies are a bit too shallow for most clarinet tone holes, so I only use them sometimes, not so often.
After filling tone holes I mostly finish with a dental micromotor by hand. If more is necessary to cut I'd use a home made more accurange angle shaped "cutter", which is either a steel made cutter or a metal/plastic tool with sand paper glued to it. This is for the outer angled "bed". For the slight inside angle I use tapered cutters from Boehm or home made tools. I think Ferree's, Allied, etc. have similar tools.
For swedging, IMO it is not as simple as buying a plier and swedge. First, there are two types of swedging. One is to remove play from between posts, the other is to remove play from around the rod screw (and often both). Someimes different methods are used for each problem.
The collet is used mostly for the latter, removing the play between the hinge tube and the rod screw. It doesn't extend the hinge tube very much. Also you can only use it at the ends of the tubes. Pliers do this too but slightly less accurately (don't put equal pressure all around the tube) but can work just fine for this too (sometimes) but also better for extending the hinge tube. For maximum extending you'd use thinner pliers, which will put the force on a small area for the same force. You can use pliers anywhere with enough space for the pliers you are using.
I really like the big pliers from Ferree's with several holes, but the new version. It works so you don't need as much force with your hand for the same result. Other than that it's better to have several other pliers in different sizes and thicknesses. I think I have about eight sedging pliers and occasionally feel I could use even more sizes.
Very important for swedging are "anti-swedging" tools. These are tools for fitting the rod screws when you swedged a bit too much, facing the hinge tube ends, deburring the inside and outside of the hinge tubes, etc. These are many more tools and some can be expensive and some are pretty cheap. But all are very important IMO. These can inlude hinge tube facers, broaches, round files, reamers, dental burs (cone, setting and cup), etc.
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