 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Emmyluvsmusic
Date: 2011-07-15 19:14
I just bought an M30 lyre and I'm finding it pretty uncomfortable to play on.
I used to play on a really really open generic rubber mouthpiece. After 2 years, I switched to a Gennusa Retro which was a pretty big difference but I found that I immediately adapted to it and I also liked the tone quality. After a few months, my teacher didn't like its lack of projection and told me to try Vandoren lyres so I bought an M30 lyre because when I was trying it, I was told it produced a more refined sound.
Now I'm finding it really difficult to play on. Normally, I like the presence of resistance but on this M30 lyre, I'm craving for something more free blowing. When I visually compare the Gennusa with it, I find that the M30 lyre has a steeper facing, is a tad longer and much narrower. Now I'm even more confused.
What should I do?
Thank you to anyone who replies.
Post Edited (2011-07-15 19:41)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-07-15 20:33
First of all, regarding the difficulty you're having with the M30L, you don't say anything about having experimented with reeds to play on it. The differences in facings and internal measurements among the generic, the Gennusa and the M30L are enough to need different reeds. If you haven't done the necessary exploration in this area, your M30L problems may just be a matter of mis-matched reeds.
Second of all, your teacher sent you after the Vandoren mouthpiece when you were comfortable on the Gennusa. If your teacher really thinks you sound better on the Vandoren, he/she should be helping you overcome your discomfort. In the end, you and not your teacher will be playing the mouthpiece you end up with. For what it's worth, I have several mouthpieces in my drawer that I think sound wonderful but for which I'm not able to find reed adjustments that make a response I'm comfortable with.
Even within the Vandoren series, there are a lot of other facings. M30 (regular or Lyre) is near the open end of their line but also features what they identify as a "L"ong curve. That's a combination that you may not ever find comfortable without a significant embouchure reconfiguration. You can try models that are shorter-curved, closer-tipped or both and you'll find each of them to respond very differently.
If your teacher is strongly encouraging you to switch, ask for more help in getting and evaluating different models.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-07-15 20:49
Not everyone can play on any mouthpiece, if that were the case there would only be a half dozen on the market instead of hundreds. This may simply not be the MP for you. You probably should have tried several different facings before deciding on the M30L. I do agree though, that perhaps you need to experiment with some different reeds, perhaps a bit softer. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Emmyluvsmusic
Date: 2011-07-15 20:51
Thank you for the reply.
I've always played with V12 3 1/2s and 3 1/2+s. With the Gennusa, the 3 1/2+s played better. However, with the M30L, I couldn't find a reed that was easier to play with but also produced a good sound. With the softer 3 1/2s I have, it still sounded quite shrill.
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Author: Emmyluvsmusic
Date: 2011-07-15 20:58
Thank you for the reply.
In the past, I've tried almost all the models of Vandoren mouthpieces except the lyres and couldn't find one that I really liked. I never went back to them until recently all the teachers I went to hated my mouthpiece(Gennusa). Then I decided to try their lyres. I've tried their M13L, M15L, M30L and M45L and picked out the M30L. Maybe I should just follow my own instinct and stop looking in the Vandorens?
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Author: claaaaaarinet!!!!
Date: 2011-07-15 23:43
I personally haven't had much luck with the M30 or M30 Lyre. You might try the B40 Lyre - it's conceptually similar, but in my opinion a lot easier to play.
Incidentally, I play the B40Lyre and I use 2.5 traditional cut Vandorens on it. It's a pretty open facing.
Post Edited (2011-07-15 23:46)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-07-16 00:27
At my teacher's suggestion/insistence, I played an M30 for a couple of years. I never did like it much.
One problem for me was its very long facing required me to nearly swallow the mouthpiece to bring my lower lip down to the bottom of the window.
I finally used that mouthpiece as a blank for a nice custom facing by Lee Livengood, and now that is my favorite mouthpiece. His facing concept is that the 'piece should be easy to play, and this one is.
Mouthpiece choice is very personal, and you really should keep looking until you find one that is nice to you. It will sound good, play in tune and articulate so quickly that you can make any leap you can invent --slurred or tongued.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Emmyluvsmusic
Date: 2011-07-16 01:38
That's the first time I've heard someone do that. Why do you need to bring your lower lip all the way down there? I mean, I understand taking more mouthpiece in means getting more air in the horn but my top teeth only get to half of the teeth guard.
I did get a chance to try a mouthpiece that was faced by Livengood and it was really good, but also really expensive. As a student with a limited budget, I didn't get it. Now that a think about it, that was stupid of me because the cost of the Gennusa plus the M30L already adds up to the price of that mouthpiece and now my mouthpiece problem is still unresolved. Right now I really want to try Grabner's K13, but again it's also pricey and if I don't find it to my liking, I can't get a refund from the shipping costs.
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2011-07-16 02:54
Bob wrote concerning the M30 MP:
"One problem for me was its very long facing required me to nearly swallow the mouthpiece to bring my lower lip down to the bottom of the window."
My teacher also uses the M30 and he has been trying to get me to take more of the MP into my mouth, though it is quite uncomfortable and gives me a lot less tonal control. It also causes a lot of squeaks.
I currently play with a Portnoy BOP 2 MP and 3.5 Mitchell Lurie reeds. I did buy a M30 but couldn't play it at all. I sent it to Bob Bernardo and he said the side rails are too thick. A manufacturing defect? Have others bought new defective mouthpieces from VD? I, unfortunately, bought it on a certain online aution site and can't return it. It was still factory sealed. Actually I probably would have kept using the Portnoy anyway. I think the only reason my teacher doesn't like it is because it isn't VD and he loves their stuff.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-07-16 03:23
Shipping is pretty minimal for a package the size of a mouthpiece.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-07-16 03:32
Bob Phillips wrote:
>
> One problem for me was its very long facing required me to
> nearly swallow the mouthpiece to bring my lower lip down to the
> bottom of the window.
>
This is the kind of thing I meant when I said that the combination of open tip and long curve was "a combination that you may not ever find comfortable without a significant embouchure reconfiguration." The theory is that you get the most efficient tone production when your bottom lip is at or near the point of separation between the reed and the mouthpiece (the bottom of the curve). But to move the mouthpiece farther in to reach that point, the whole shape of your mouth may need to change. It isn't that you can't make these adjustments, but if you don't you *may* never find the mouthpiece's response comfortable. If you do make the adjustments you may find the new configuration isn't comfortable either.
Karl
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Author: Emmyluvsmusic
Date: 2011-07-16 04:37
I do understand what you mean, but my teacher plays on an M30L right now, and she takes in even less mouthpiece than me, at least from my observations. She sounds perfectly fine. Embouchure is probably a factor but I don't think it's because of how much mouthpiece I take in.
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Author: Emmyluvsmusic
Date: 2011-07-16 04:41
You know, I think maybe what's bothering me with this mouthpiece is that the tip of the beak itself is really thick. I don't think it's a manufacturing defect, it's just a Vandoren thing because the other lyres I tried are like that too.
Yea, a lot of teachers favour Vandoren mouthpieces. I thought handcrafted ones are better?
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-07-16 09:30
M30s were designed to have thick side and tip rails. This does indeed darken the sound a lot, however a lot of people have response and articulation issues with the M30, including myself, since it is what I am currently playing on. The long facing deal only bothers be with articulation as it causes my tongue to have to reposition more towards the back of my mouth. A little uncomfortable. I actually just got some Gregory Smith mpcs from him two days ago and narrowed it down to two that I really like. However one all of them the articulation, response, and beauty of sound. Not trying to shamelessly plug here, just praising another fantastic mouthpiece maker in Greg Smith.
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Author: Emmyluvsmusic
Date: 2011-07-16 15:18
Actually, when I play on the M30L, the sound is actually brighter than the sound I have on the Gennusa. But my teacher was right in that it allows more projection. It also produces a more dimensional tone rather than the flat tone with the Gennusa.
If only I could afford trying all the great mouthpiece makers out there.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-07-16 17:08
Well, Hawkins and Greg Smith dont charge for an initial trial fee for their pieces. You just put a card on file for collateral basically. Then theyll send you some to try. Well worth it.
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Author: annev
Date: 2011-07-16 17:18
Hi Emmy,
I see that you live in Toronto. If you are ever in Montreal, the music store, Twigg Musique, will let you try their mouthpieces out while you are there. Take another set of ears with you to help you evaluate the sound you produce. One time when I was there, the practice rooms were full, so they put me in the stock room and I was able to just select mouthpieces off the shelves! (They clean them, by the way, before they re-stock the ones that have been tried). When you narrow your choice down, try a few mouthpieces of each given type - they do vary individually even with the same model.
Just by the way, I tried the M30 and didn't like it, even though I know many people do. For me, although it was lovely and dark in the chalumeau range, I found it "thin" in the clarion. I opted for an M15 (the best of three M15s I tried out). But it's very very individual. Try as many as you can to find what feels and sounds best for you.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-07-16 17:48
I misstated the amount of mouthpiece insertion needed with the M30. You need to place your lower lip near the place where the reed leaves the table --and the window is below that.
The best advice I've had on how much mouthpiece to take is that you put as much in as you can and still control the reed. That's demonstrated by playing an open G. Too much insertion, and you get a horrid squeak.
The reason for that is that your lip will then be below the place where the reed starts to flap, and lip pressure just squeezes the reed tighter against the flat table instead of wrapping it onto the start of the curve of the lay.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Emmyluvsmusic
Date: 2011-07-16 21:25
Hi Annev,
I'm actually going to school in Montreal in the fall. I checked out Twigg and they do have a large variety of Vandoren mouthpieces but only Vandorens. I'm kind of giving up on Vandoren now, but thanks for the suggestion.
Yeah I remember the time I tried M30 as well, I also found it producing a thin sound in general. The M30 lyre, however, is actually closer to 5RV than M30, just like someone said earlier. I'm finding that it sounds almost like a jazz mouthpiece. Anyway, I think I'm going to play on it some more and see if it gets any easier.
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