 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-06-14 03:56
Following an accident just over a month ago, I have needed, and today received, a dental plate and four new (but not real) front teeth. I waited for a few hours after the dental fitting and then tried to play my clarinet for a few minutes. It was the first time after the accident. I was worried and dismayed at the difference it made.
My ability to feel the clarinet through my front teeth has gone and the plate seems to move fractionally when my teeth connect with the mouthpiece and that is unsettling but presumably necessary for getting them in and out. Now I'm sure that things will work out and part of that working out will be to go back to the dentist and have adjustments made to the plate.
I wanted to ask advice from those who wear dentures. Are there any tips that you can pass on about making adjustments to plates that will assist in regaining my embouchure? Any observations because I know I'm going to go back to the dentist and find it difficult to explain what I want to happen. One of the things that has happened is that I have gone from having a pronounced underbite to having my teeth (vertically) in line.
Any observations or advice will be gratefully received.
Post Edited (2011-06-14 03:56)
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Author: rborders
Date: 2011-06-14 04:24
You didn't mention if this is an upper or lower plate.
I have been playing with an upper for several years now without much trouble. I do get some movement and like you said it is impossible to feel the the mouthpiece thru your teeth.
I really do not have any tips about making adjustments.
It will take some time but I think you will get accustomed to the lack of the under bite.
My plate is beginning to get loose and I'm considering getting one that snaps on to small implanted posts. Approximately $5,000
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2011-06-14 05:20
Tony --
Welcome to the club.
You mentioned going from a pronounced underbite to having your uppers and lowers more or less aligned with each other.
I'll bet the problem you are having is more related to the new alignment than to the plate itself. If so, give yourself time to adjust to the new alignment, and realize that a pronounced underbite is the most difficult configuration from an embouchure standpoint. Your new alignment is the best (easiest) configuration but will take some time and some adjustment in your embouchure in order to play successfully. It may well be that some adjustments (contortions?) which you were obliged to do in order to deal with your pronounced underbite will now be unnecessary and that you can now play more easily than before.
Those of us who play the clarinet or saxophone with very little embouchure pressure do not have a problem adjusting to dentures or a dental plate or bridge because our upper teeth merely rest on the mouthpiece, and our lower teeth act only as a sort of support for the lip but do not apply nearly enough pressure on the lip to cause any problems.
However, the great majority of amateur clarinet players (and many professionals) use considerable embouchure pressure on the reed and mouthpiece, and these players will have some difficulty in adjusting to dentures or a dental plate. If you belong to this group, it is going to take some time to make the necessary adjustments.
Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-06-14 05:22
Thanks for the comment and sorry for the omission. It is the upper plate. I was wondering if this might be a situation where double lip is useful. My reasoning here is that at least it part of me (as opposed to ABS plastic or whatever they make the false teeth from) that is in contact with the mouthpiece.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-06-14 18:29
As a result of chidhood accident I lost my 2 front upper teeth early on and for 50 years played clarinet with a partial upper denture. After about 5 years my dentist made a skelton steel plate model that had small clips that gripped around some rear teeth and was remarkably stable. I had that same plate for about 40 years, relined once or twice along the way, and it was no problem playing with it at all. I even played cavalry and fanfare trumpet whilst serving in the army and of course those exert far different and more difficult embouchure pressures on the plate. So you should in time have no real problem playing.
I just think you tried to do too much too soon and you need to allow the gums to heal and firm up.
About 5 years ago I did go for a full upper bridge instead of the plate and once I got used to it I must say it is remarkably close to having my own real front teeth again, just wish I could have afforded it earlier.
ps. I omitted to say that for virtually all my playing years I have used double lip embouchure and certainly think that helps, one is very disinclined to bite!!
Post Edited (2011-06-14 18:31)
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-06-14 22:32
Thanks for the comments. I take the point about waiting and I am sort of surprised that my eagerness to practice again is overriding my commonsense.
One thing that has me thinking is the double lip. Quite some time ago I shifted to playing double lip and felt very comfortable with it. But my teacher at the time didn't like it and I went back to single. His comments about improving tone had always been excellent and I was happy to follow his advice. I have tried double lip since I got the dentures and the advantage seems to be that it is a part of me that is in contact with the mouthpiece. The disadvantage is that I feel like I'm walking around with a piano keyboard in my mouth and it isn't easy to stretch my lips around that. Ah, well, time wounds all heels.
Thanks for the comments. The dismay and worry is somewhat easied by your kind words.
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Author: Paul Miller
Date: 2011-06-15 09:26
Are these new teeth removable? Maybe you could have a second set made that aligns perfectly with the curve of the top of your mouthpiece.
I can see you unpacking your gear for rehearsal... bell, bottom joint, top joint, barrel, mouthpiece, reed knife, pencil, teeth, music, reeds, ligature....
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-06-17 01:41
Norman,
I meant to get you in my earlier thank you but I posted in the wrong spot for that. I took the dentures back and had them adjusted and I can play again. I sound awful but that is to be expected. The interesting thing is that double lip comes automatically now. I could play double lip before but didn't. Now it is the preferred option by far, even though it isn't my teacher's preference. I'll cross that bridge (no pun intended) with my teacher when I go back. Thanks for the encouragement.
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Author: kat123
Date: 2011-06-20 03:24
tony
be sure to give yourself time to heal and use a softer reed etc..... you need to see protodontist who can help you with your front teeth...... inplants are good for the top two teeth but if your sound is affected badly yu may have to stop playing.... dentures are not good for clarinet playing..... you can look into double embourchure and a mouthpieces butsee what prostodontist can come up with,.. some are very creative,,,,,,, i think you will be just fine! WITH ADJUSTMENT good luck
karena
karena
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-06-20 04:11
Thanks for the advice, Karena. I'm afraid it's dentures all the way for me. Time, it is becoming clear, is the thing. I'm playing a little more each day but, for some reason, everything is now 30 cents flat. I suppose the inside of my mouth is a different shape and I have to get used to working a new sound. Double lip vs single is interesting. Double gives me a more stable embouchure but a less focussed sound, single gives a better sound but it is difficult to maintain a stable embouchure. Before the accident I couldn't tell the difference, they both felt natural, easy and stable.
The good thing is that, knowing that I will become a different clarinet player this side of the accident, it all seems kind of amusing rather than disturbing (which is what I felt when I thought I might not play again). And if I wanted to be more of a musician, well, I'm walking around in Phil Spector teeth these days (he can keep his wigs), that's close enough for me.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-06-20 19:01
Don't get disheartened Tony, it's very early days yet and there is no reason why you should not get back to playing just as well as ever. This may just be an opininion, as of course are all expressions on this board, but it is an opinion based on real life experience of this subject and not just theoretical speculation, which I think some of the posts just are.
In addition to the gums healing and firming up there is a related factor to consider, namely that your teeth AND gums provide the scaffold that supports your entire embouchure including muscles radiating far back from just your lips.
Your embouchure needs time to adapt and strengthen to this new environment, and with modest perserverance it will.
30+ years back I lost just one lower back tooth just in front of the molars, a long way from my lips, and yet there was an immediate effect on my embouchure that took several weeks to erase.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-06-20 19:18
Don't have dentures (yet) but did want to say that double lip has kept me from biting and I had to learn to use my upper lip to steady my mouthpiece while tonguing. I could definitely see where double lip, in your case, would be a benefit as well as an aide in holding those top front teeth in place, if that's even an issue.
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Author: garth2007
Date: 2015-05-18 01:41
my dentist has informed me that in the next couple of years I will lose my teeth, and that I must choose between dentures and dental implants. The latter are astronomically expensive, so I am hoping that I can get dentures and still be able to play the clarinet. I found the postings at this site to be extremely helpful and encouraging. I was wondering if anyone could weigh in about the relative merits and drawbacks of dentures as compared to inplants. My dentist has told me that dentures are not very good for playing the clarinet. Yet on this site I have read more than one entry where people are able to play with dentures. It may not be easy or comfortable, and it will certainly require change and adjustments, but from what I have read here on this site, it does not sound impossible.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-05-18 03:48
Loose all your teeth or just some?
If loosing all and having to have complete dentures then I don't doubt that implants would be much more secure, however I believe that there is quite some time delay in fitting posts and getting temporary teeth etc - but the technology is advancing all the time - at a price.
If just some teeth then (depending obviously on specific losses) dentures can be very satisfactory, however (again depending on specifics) a bridge can be an even better choice.
Sorry about so many "specifics" but I guess there are too many variables without having full facts.
How about getting a second professional dental opinion.
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Author: Dianne M.
Date: 2015-05-18 21:23
My experience may or may not help. Here's the saga.
When I was a child I lost my newly-acquired two front teeth in a snow shovel tug-of-war during which the other kid let go. In my teens I was able to have caps made. In the meantime I had developed a double embouchure, probably because the broken teeth were pointed (inverted "V") and the upper lip covering them was more comfortable than planting them on the mouthpiece directly. Caps were replaced multiple times (they were porcelain and broke fairly easily), gums didn't like all the trauma, and fast forward to my 40's and I lost the two front teeth plus one next to them. My wonderful dental specialist made me a 7-tooth permanent bridge--two prepared teeth on either side of the missing ones as "anchors." That (quite good-looking) bridge has been in my mouth for at least 25 years. I have a well-developed double embouchure--no issue with not "feeling" the mouthpiece directly because I never did anyway.
I would think implants would have the same practical effect as my permanent bridge--though inevitably there will be adjustment because teeth geometry is bound to be somewhat different. With dentures you wouldn't have as much stability--but again, a double embouchure might be the answer. (People have told me they've been able to develop one with not too much difficulty (but I expect it isn't totally without frustration).) Besides partially covering the top teeth, so "feeling" the mouthpiece is not the same issue as before, such an embouchure creates a sort of stable pressure point at the upper lip that might help mitigate some of the potential movement in an upper plate.
Hope this is helpful to some.
Dianne
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Author: j8649
Date: 2015-05-19 05:30
Hi Garth,
Dental implants are better than dentures in every aspect (except the initial price). An implant that is placed by a qualified, experienced dentist can last a lifetime and will function like your regular teeth. A denture, however, will need relining or replacement over time because the underlying gum tissue changes. Most people adjust really well to an upper denture and don't mind the adjustment period. The lower denture, however, can be really bothersome for some people. There are many factors that influence the stability of the lower denture (how many natural teeth are left, how much bone is present, etc.). Also, the lower denture stability is affected by the movement of the tongue. Like any type of replacement, you must learn to use the dentures. Some people adapt very easily, while others take more time. Some people are never satisfied with their lower denture.
An implant involve placing a metal post in your jaw bone. The post must heal at least 8 weeks before your dentist can place the permanent crown (the top tooth part). Implants function just like your the teeth that were lost and should last a lifetime. By the time you have replaced your denture once, you have spent about the same amount of money that you would have on an implant. In the long run, implants are more economical, but not in the short run.
It is always prudent to discuss your expectations, concerns, playing goals and financial situation with your doctor so that you can reach the best solution for you.
I hope that this helps.
Julie
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