 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2011-06-05 04:53
Noticing this on an R13 Bb as well as a YCL-CSG Bb (just bought the CSG and the R13 was new in 1997). Is this just a normal tendency for most clarinets?
I've got 2 different websites that seem somewhat conflicting:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/tuningBb.htm
http://www.tsmp.org/band/band/allen_..._clarinet.html
I've tried 4 different mouthpieces. M30 Traditional, M13 Lyre, B45 Traditional, and a Portnoy BP02. I pretty much get the same results on either instrument on any mouthpiece. With the M13 Lyre, I use the shorter barrel that comes with the Yamaha.
I understand that pulling out / pushing in affects the throat tones more than the other ranges. And dynamics also affects the throat tones more than the other ranges. If I push in enough to get the throat tones in tune, then I have to pull out at the middle joint to get the lower clarion in tune, but then the upper clarion will be 15 cents sharp.
Pretty much the same thing on both instruments on all mouthpieces with a metal ligature and Gonzalez FOFs.
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Author: Paul Miller
Date: 2011-06-05 06:35
Raising the pad heights in the throat might help with this, or add some venting to resonance fingerings to bring those notes in tune.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-06-05 07:59
Pauls answer is pretty accurate. Added to Pauls excellent advice is try assorted barrels with different MP's If there is a really good repairman nearby, or even if you ship it to someone great such as RGB in Hollywood. They have the tools to rebore barrels and undercut the holes. The guy I like there is Levi, not sure of the spelling. but it's the same as Levi's found in stores.
From experience the M13 plays flat with some of the notes. By chance do you bite or keep your do you play with a light setup?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-06-05 08:02
It's hard to beat an R 13, but I would play around a dozen or so and pick out the best of the bunch. Bring a tuner.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-06-05 08:07)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-05 09:49
Check the toneholes are all clear as fluff, fibres, grease and other stuff can build up in them where they meet the bore over time which can cause the throat notes to be stuffy and flat.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2011-06-05 18:26
Well, the CSG is brand new and I think I'm gonna send it back and try another one. It's just baffling though to have the same problem on 2 different professional-level horns. I might have to be chalkin' this one up as user error and maybe I'm just doing something wrong embouchure-wise. I just don't understand how if I play an E that comes out flat and then while holding the air and embouchure and everything else steady that If I ease open the register key to play a high B, then it comes out sharp. I wish there was a way I could sit down with a pro for a good 2 hours and show 'em all this with the tuner and ask questions and get to the bottom of it.
Post Edited (2011-06-05 18:29)
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-06-05 19:38
just another comment: I have a 1971 R13 and when I use my moennig barrel on it, I get the same symptom. However, when I put the stock barrel (regular R13 barrel), the throat notes are much more in tune.
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2011-06-05 21:35
Prolly both 1 and 2. I get a similar thing with D4-A5 and C4-G5. D4 and C4 will be in tune, but G5 and A5 will be sharp. I wish I could think of what I'm doing wrong.
No doubt the first thing I noticed about the Yamaha is the longer top piece and shorter barrels. The top piece doesn't even fit properly into the R13 case.
Sorry, here's the correct 2nd link: http://www.tsmp.org/band/band/allen_intone_clarinet.html
Post Edited (2011-06-05 21:57)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-06-06 07:48
By the way, a lot of pro's use a different fingering for the throat tones. Me included, with slow pieces, but for faster pieces I use the normal fingering. Maybe someone on the board can post these sub fingerings.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2011-06-06 09:17
- There's no guarantee that even a new clarinet will have the right pad clearances.
- You can pull out at the bell to lower the clarion B (and the C to some extent). Having a slightly flat low E is usually not a disaster.
- As for the wide twelfths... how wide?
- Does it get better with a softer reed / more relaxed embouchure?
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2011-06-07 00:22
Really thank everyone for all the good replies. I'm going to do a little more experimenting before I decide to send the instrument back.
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-06-08 18:07
I see a lot here about wide 12ths. More often than not, my 12ths are actually too narrow. Does this happen often or is this strange? (I didn't ask if I was strange; the world already knows the answer to that!)
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Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-06-11 13:50
I think it happens more with the short-tube notes than the notes with more fingers down. To a point, it happens across the board. More analysis on my part needs to be done. That's tough to do right now with the high temps and high humidity screwing with my playing.
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Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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