 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2011-06-05 04:14
Some of us play more than one horn, so we're called "doublers."
That said, I thought I played a lot of different horns...until I heard this guy!
He's just playing a few of the horns he can actually double on, he's really quite amazing! And then he has a little talk with Adolphe Sax, the inventor of the Saxophone...!!!
Give a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0tFp2_H3R8&feature=related
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-06-05 05:13
I'm floored.
Imagine setting up all those instruments.
Getting the bell note pads to seat.
Picking mouthpieces, reeds,
consulting with the BB on ligatures, ...
Bob Phillips
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-06-05 05:22
O,
and
Saxophobia (and Clariphobia) are compositions by Rudy Wiedoeft.
Bob Phillips
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Author: ned
Date: 2011-06-05 10:43
At the risk of sounding churlish, and whilst he has terrific chops, plus an admirable collection of instruments, they are all basically saxophones (as far I could tell anyway, given just the brief flashes of each in the video), so I guess I would not go so far as to say he's a ''doubler''. I even harbour doubts about clarinet/sax players as being true doublers even, because, to my mind a doubler can play two or more DIFFERENT instruments properly, not just the same instrument which are variations on a theme.
I can hear the howls of protest now. OK, ok......... clarinets ARE harder to actually blow, go up by a twelfth and saxophones by an octave, and they have somewhat different fingering, but that's about it in my view.
Here is a small selection of jazz players who I would say are/were true doublers, and brilliant at the same time - and in no particular order these folks come to mind.
James Morrison - trumpet, trombone, piano
Tom Baker - trumpet, clarinet, trombone
Benny Carter - trumpet, clarinet, saxophone
Ray Nance - trumpet, violin
There are many folks out there, who can also professionally play two or more FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT types of instrument - they are the true doublers.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-05 11:57
The only similarity between saxes and clarinets is the use of a single reed mouthpiece - after that, they're completely different animals. Saxes are far more closely related to oboes and don't share any physical properties with clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: justme
Date: 2011-06-05 13:04
John:-,
Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i17NoXKjvP0
"A critic is like a eunuch: he knows exactly how it ought to be done."
CLARINET, n.
An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarinet -- two clarinets
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-06-05 13:20
I'm somewhere between Ned and Chris - I've seen different opinions on that topic - some say that those two different instrument families aren't further apart than individual members within the same family (eg sop vs bari may be a bigger stretch than eg between tenor sax and Bass clarinet), while others are more strict in this regard and keep the individual families strictly separated.
Same physics apply everywhere - the longer the air column, the deeper the note, and the fingerings are - naturally, more or less related if not identical, at least in the individual registers.
The biggie IMO is the embouchure and the resulting sound. Here I witness the biggest challenge, and not everyone (myself included) who can play a lick on either instrument is already a good doubler - even within the same instrument family. In that light, the performer in the video did an impressive job.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-05 14:00
I bet the purists recoil in absolute horror watching him playing Jazz on an Adolphe Sax tenor! It just proves what versatile instruments they are regardless of make.
Just not comfortable with the name 'Saxophobia' - why should anyone have an irrational fear of them? Oh, maybe I've just answered my own question!
I watched this same video a while back and think it's great what he's doing. I've done a similar thing with my oboe teacher demonstrating woodwind instruments in various primary schools and the kids all loved the saxes best - especially bari.
Just noticed he's playing the baritone Rothphone with a single reed bassoon mouthpiece instead of a double reed.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-06-05 14:26)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-06-05 15:26
>> At the risk of sounding churlish, and whilst he has terrific chops <<
Really...?
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2011-06-05 20:44
And me , Recorder / Oboe / Flute / Clarinet.
Player of many instruments , master of none
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-06-06 01:13
I agree somewhat with Ned on this. They're all essentially saxophones, or at least played with a saxophone mouthpiece. A true doubler learns all of the correct instruments, with correct mouthpieces/embouchures/reeds, etc. A lot of the people on the board here play many different instruments. I, for one, play flute, oboe, clarinet, saxophone, bassoon, recorder, violin, viola, cello and bass (and a small amount of piano). I've given recitals on flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon and violin, played violin, viola and oboe in regional professional orchestras, violin, viola and cello in a string quartet and bass in high school orchestra and jazz band. Those, are different styles of instruments and playing styles. The saxophones, are still that...saxophones.
just my $.02
Still..a good post, and 13mins of basically straight playing = good set of chops!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: ned
Date: 2011-06-06 01:43
David Blumberg writes: ''Holy crap!!! Sax trombone, trumpet, accordion, jeez!!! Cool''
Whilst I said he had good chops, I was referring to the saxophone fingered instruments he demonstrated. Some of the other stuff was played on what can best be described as novelty instruments. He must have just got them out for the day possibly, because his intonation on the sliding instruments was somewhat suspect.
This backs up my notion of ''true doublers'' actually. In this instance consider the trombone. It's totally unlike a clarinet/saxophone. You hold the thing out in front of you and move a tube up and down the length of another tube. Sounds easy enough, you don't even have to own a set of fingers to play it, but you have to have a devilishly good ear to be proficient on one. You also need to know exactly where the positions are or be able to ''lip it'' accordingly, instantly, to play in tune.
So.........if you can play a clarinet or saxophone, plus a trombone, then in my book you are a doubler. The bloke I mentioned, Tom Baker (sadly deceased) could do it. He was equally talented on trumpet......and could sing too! I had the honour of sitting in with him at one of his jobs many years ago.
Here's a Youtube link of Tom's band doing a Louis Armstrong show stopper version of Wild Man Blues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZLNJjMSTNo
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Author: DougR
Date: 2011-06-06 02:02
How this thread on multi-instrument doubling got this far with no one mentioning Scott Robinson is beyond me. (well, actually, there's no video I could find of Scott playing his enormous "family," so maybe that's why.)
I remember catching his one-man show in the basement of a local eatery: one entire end was crammed full of stuff like: contrabass sax, bass marimba, variousl percussion instruments and cymbals, trumpet with built-in mute, various sarrusaphone/rothaphones, undoubtedly a euphonium or two, contrabass clarinet, many saxes (including slide sax), several other brass instruments, plus some bastard contraptions like that miniature bassoon-like thing with the baby bass-clarinet bell and a clarinet mouthpiece (can't think of the name of it, but you can see him playing it on his website)......ALL of which he played, and played wonderfully well.
I really enjoyed the video too--LOVED the sound of the Conn-O-sax, which I've never heard before, and the Epplesheim sopranino-nino sax was cute as a button & actually sounded good. You could carry one in the breast pocket of your suit & always be ready to sit in somewhere!
Thanks, John, lots of fun!
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-06-06 04:08
Neat video. First time I've actually heard someone playing a Conn-O-Sax.
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Author: William
Date: 2011-06-06 14:52
Not to bring up an old controversy regarding material and sound, however, did anyone else notice the distinct different in of the 'plastic' saxophone. Note--he was using a conventional neck.
And, for me, I'm less impressed by his playing of the different saxophones than in the assembly of so many at one time. Imagine carrying all those horns for a wedding band gig....LOL.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-06-06 16:37
I have been told that he alone keeps Vandoren in business.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-06-06 17:08
William wrote:
> Not to bring up an old controversy regarding material and
> sound, however, did anyone else notice the distinct different
> in of the 'plastic' saxophone. Note--he was using a
> conventional neck.
All of the Grafton saxes used metal neck as the plastic ones would have broken way too easily. As it was the Grafton saxes were somewhat known for having cataqstrophic mechanical failures during performances. They were designed to be cheap, not to play well. Most people regard them as toy saxophones but they sell for stupidly high prices because they are rare and because Charlie Parker briefly played one after having pawned his normal sax (again...) and being offered a free Grafton plastic sax.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-06 17:39
All Grafton acrylic saxes (they only made altos) had a brass crook.
You can now get a plastic/polycarbonate-bodied and keyed alto: http://www.vibratosax.com/
Appears a tenor is in the pipeline!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-06-06 17:44)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-07 11:43
I approach each instument I play differently - I'm primarily a sax player and love the playing styles and sounds of Jan Gabarek, Michael Brecker and David Sanborn and try to emulate them to a degree and also fit in with what other sax players do in the section.
I'm a very straight-down-the-line Classical/orchestral style clarinet player (but can bend notes and add wide vibrato when I have to) and love the German, Swedish, Italian and Russian clarinet sound.
Oboe-wise I absolutely love Heinz Holliger's and also Maurice Bourgue's playing, but I generally go for a thicker, heavier tone and much shallower vibrato - or very English-sounding as my teacher put it.
Flute it's James Galway whose tone I aim for as he's the first instrumentalist whose playing I've heard from a very early age.
Not really decided on who to base my contrabassoon tone on - I haven't listened to any contra players in much detail but try to make as full a tone as is possible.
There are the musical aspects that span the different instruments which doublers retain, but each instrument has its own specific and distinctive qualities and those have to be paramount.
There are some sax players out there who approach the clarinet in a sax-style way and it does nothing for me - they often have a very spread, uncentred or 'throaty' tone that I don't find attractive and usually their tuning has a lot to be desired as they use wide tip openings, soft reeds and have the barrels shortened too much (even less than 62mm in some cases from the original 66 or 67mm).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2011-06-07 15:16
Bravo "Buster" my feelings exactly about all of us who "double" here in NYC!
BTW: The Musician's Union- AFM and Local 802 in NYC, all have specific rules on what constitutes a "double" and we are paid accordingly.
Doubling is an art, some choose to go that path, others not, so be it.
One more small point: The term "a double" means one more horn. There are not "triples" or "quadruples"? But rather, your first double, second double, third double, etc,
I play four horns at WICKED on Broadway, so I have "three doubles", they are Bb Clarinet, Eb Clarinet, Bass Clarinet & Soprano Sax. I am a DOUBLER. On Broadway's pay scale I am paid 25% over-scale for my doubles, a very nice Union negotiated fee bargained for many years ago.
Enjoy your musical gigs!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-06-08 04:22
>> Saxophobia (and Clariphobia) are compositions by Rudy Wiedoeft. <<
What do you mean? In the clip which called SAXOPHOBIA all I hear is a bunch of standard songs, not a "composition".
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Author: ned
Date: 2011-06-08 05:25
If a clarinet (only) player wanted to add an instrument to his/her CV, then I guess a saxophone would seem to be a likely candidate.
It follows then, that the learning of the saxophone would come more readily to him/her than perhaps (say) the trombone, for reasons that I outlined earlier.
It's obvious to me (perhaps only to me?) that for our clarinet specialist to gravitate to a non reed instrument, a whole new mindset would be required. The clarinet and saxophone all require the use of the same complement of fingers and thumbs, all point and are held (more or less) in the same plane, all are single reed, and all are festooned with a myriad of key work requiring pretty much the same sort of techniques to conquer. Embouchures, as rightly pointed out, are different, but not fundamentally so when compared to a trumpet or a trombone or a tuba.
Were our intrepid clarinet player however, to choose the trumpet, piano, violin, guitar, trombone (or other non-reed instrument) then a complete rethink of his/her musical skills and playing techniques would be required. This is really what I meant when I used the phrase ''fundamentally different''.
Whilst using oneself as an example can unfortunately be seen as hubris (and this is not my intention) here are a couple of examples of mine. 1/ I can safely say that my flirtation with the trumpet some years ago, unfortunately led me practically nowhere, whereas I can function fairly adequately on the alto sax when required, although the clarinet is my main instrument. 2/ During my time as an Army private, I was the lead drummer in the battalion pipe and drum band. I was offered a switch to bagpipes by the bandmaster (which I declined) as he stated that I would pick it up quite easily, because he had heard me on the clarinet and also, idly amusing myself with the bagpipes.
Let me make it clear though, I was not casting aspersions on the likes of our professional colleagues who may play any number of versions of the clarinet or saxophone. I also take no offence at Buster's comments and in particular I note his apparent aversion to my use of the word ''true'' as a prefix.
I however, stand by all that I have written, and duly note that my interpretation of the word ''doubler'' differs from others.
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-06-08 17:58
Clarinet is my primary (well, duh). I can play them from Eb to bass and I think I play each of them fairly well. I play flute/piccolo more proficiently than I play alto sax. I've also played some oboe (not for very long and not very well; kept closing off the reed). I play alto sax in orchestra when it's called for.
I will never be needed for flute/piccolo since in the 2 orchestras I play in all the time, there are 5 flute players in both of them. I'd say for about 1/2 our concerts in Brighton, all 5 players are there. It makes balance tough.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Jim Harper ★2017
Date: 2011-06-08 23:52
Ok, I saw this Amir Gwirtzman perform earlier this year. I was wowed for the first 45 minutes. Then... he kept up the overdubbing multi-instrumental stuff for 2 1/2 hours with no intermission. Bit much.
He's worth checking out. He has a bunch of YouTube vidoes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0vyofSGCtI
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