 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-05-25 14:47
Wondering if there is anything that can be done to a clarinet which has a flat throat F#. It seems to me that the only thing that could be done is opening the thumb hole.
THe difference between that hole and the others is that it has a big hunk of metal in it. Can one open up that hole by filing the metal out? And if one was to do that, would it make a difference for the F#, and would it affect any other notes. It seems to me the only other note that would be affected is an open G.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-05-25 15:23
Is first-line E in tune? If it's flat, you probably have what expert repairers call a crud buildup ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) in the tone hole under the pad attached to the left middle finger ring, or a pad with the fishskin layer loose.
Clean that hole and the thumb hold insert using a damp pipe cleaner.
Any surgery on the thumb hole insert is professional work.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-05-25 15:27
Make sure the first hole below the F# is clean, if not, that could cause the note to be flat. It might be easier for a tech to undercut that hole than to play with the thumb hole, but make sure that's clean too. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-05-25 15:56
Are using the first finger fingering or the thumb + 2-side keys fingering? Is there a difference in pitch?
Bob Phillips
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-05-25 16:04
Is it solely the F# that is low? I've encountered some flatness in this area in certain makes (typically has wide 12ths), but never in just the F#. How far below pitch is the note sitting? .....and double check the surrounding notes, say open G-E, to see if there is a tendency to sag as well, albeit to a lesser degree. Pay particular attention to first space F, and also check the B and C a twelfth above. If you find flatness in only F# (perhaps B as well) go to paragraph A; if not go to B (....a Choose Your Adventure posting if you'll abide me
A- If this has suddenly occurred, the first place I would check would be the pad directly beneath the first tone hole. The pad height is partially determined by the bridge mechanism when the clarinet is fully assembled. Perhaps this has gone out of adjustment which would make for an easy fix. There may also be dirt in the tone hole, another easy fix. Furthermore, if the B a 12th up is low as well, then the thumb hole would not be the fix. If the pad height is not causing a problem, then undercutting of the proper tone hole can raise the pitch (albeit with some affect on surrounding notes). That is clearly best dealt with by a qualified tech.
B- I would look at filing away part of the thumb tube, which sends shivers down my spine as I imagine it sounding like fingernails on a chalkboard, as the very last resort. It would affect the G for sure, but also the Bb-Ab, particularly if a resonance fingering is employed. However I imagine that it would have far less affect on F#, as it's "upstream" (ignoring the fact that sound waves are reflecting back towards your mouth for now) than adjusting the tone hole under your middle finger (no jokes please!) would.
Out of curiosity, what setup are you currently using on the horn? Mouthpiece bores, barrels bores and shapes, can also have effects on tuning ratios, so that may be an option to explore. I would exhaust all these options before jumping into something drastic.
-JH
Post Edited (2011-05-25 16:06)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-05-25 16:16
Thumb bushes can be drilled out of the F# is flat - any respectable woodwind specialist can do that and that's an easier job to do than undercutting toneholes if they don't have undercutters.
If too much metal is removed from the thumb bush and the F# is still on the sharp side even when using resonance fingerings, then it can always be filled in with wax to tune it, so not much of a hardship if that happens. At worst (if there's been a major disaster), a replacement one can either be bought if it's a current make or turned up from scratch if it's an obsolete model and you can't find a suitable donor.
It won't have too much of an effect on the open G if the F# is slightly flat as the note G speaks from the tonehole under the throat A touch. If the open G is too sharp in that putting any RH fingers down won't sufficiently flatten it, then that tonehole can also be filled in to bring the open G down to pitch. The G tonehole is only open for G and the throat notes so again that won't cause any major problems with them and won't affect any other notes as it's closed for everything else once the left thumb or LH1 is held down.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-05-25 18:00
Thanks for all of the responses-awesome stuff.
The notes from throat E to G are all generally low, but not as low as the F#- I can fix these other notes by using tuning fingerings, but the F# I cant do anything about. The 12ths are actually a little high, so I do not think opening up the holes is an option for those notes- my tech agrees. So I "fix" the problem notes with different fingerings, but like I said the F# does not provide an alternative fingering.
THe side F# is also low, the pitch is the same as first finger f#.
The clarinet is a Buffet R13 A clarinet.
I am using a Moennig 65, which is quite old, and I will be replacing that.
Maybe that will fix it.
I have a Bb which has similar tuning issues, and I use a 65 moennig on that horn, which brings those pitches up, and the tuning on the rest of the instrument is easy enough to handle. But on that instrument the 12ths are more even. On this A clarinet, the shorter barrel makes the B and C too high, and generally the instrument becomes a bit sharper than I would like.
My mouthpiece is a qualite superieure chedeville that Brad Behn refaced. I have other mouthpieces and I still am experiencing the lowness on those notes.
I havent really sat down with this instruments and different barrels to see if I can find a solution by that route, but I will before doing any surgery- and I would most definately have my tech do it. I can handle fixing sharp, but I keep my tools in the tool box when it comes to flatness.
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