 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2011-05-10 18:13
I have an interesting problem.
I have this Bb Selmer Signature, in wonderful condition with just one problem.
The best I can do is play it 20 cents flat across the instrument.
I am not the owner and the owner has never been able to play above 20 cents flat either.
This is with (62.5 to 64.5) factory and after market barrels, and various mpcs.
I am going to try a test bore sleeve in the upper joint to see how it affects the intonation, but I'm kinda lost with this problem.
Any ideas or recommendations?
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-05-10 18:17
Sleeve the mouthpiece bore first as that could raise the pitch. I think narrowing the top joint bore by temporarily sleeving it may lower the pitch which isn't what you want.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-05-10 18:56)
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2011-05-10 18:43
i've never really inspected a Signature before but i've noticed that the barrel bores are quite a bit smaller than one would suspect compared to the upper joint entry.
selmer top of barrel bore = 14.56, lower part to the UJ = 14.41
backun 14.18 / 14.06 (made for the signature)
Fobes 14.68 / 14.45 (made for the signature)
and the upper joint is top = 14.91 UJ lower is 14.45
so the 14.41, 14.06, 14.45 mated to a 14.91 seems odd
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-05-10 18:53
I recall working on a pair of Selmer 10S a few years back and I noted there was a very similar step up in bore size between barrel and top joint. Seems like a Selmer tradition on their narrow bore designs.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-05-10 19:18
I also learned that reducing the bore might lower the pitch, not raise it.
Else I'm somewhat at a loss - I am used to play flat on American-market instruments with A=440 vs. our A=442, but that's maybe 10 cents. But 20???
What would Selmer say to that problem? (hey, can't hurt to write them a mail, no?)
--
Ben
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2011-05-10 19:29
Interesting.
I make the diameter on my Signature barrels about .570in (14.478mm), which is just slighter wider than the diameter I use to fashion the bore of my Recital barrels (.556in or so) . I left out my entry-exit measurements to reduce confusion.
I wonder if somewhere along the line this clarinet was machined internally.
It would be nice to have a factory rep do some measurements. Did your friend buy it new?
Unfortunately, Narrowing the bore could flatten it further (counterintuitive, but true).
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2011-05-10 19:47)
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2011-05-10 20:28
The instruments were bought new from a very respected player who got them at the selmer factory.
interestingly enough I removed a weird insert in the upper joint. It was a round teflon sheet made thing about 2 inches long, circular and about .5 mm thick around the register vent. Just placed in it, not glued or anything.
intonation was more scattered with it whenI removed it and just played the Signature for about 20 minutes with the fobes 625 intonation was nearly spot on.
weird ...
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2011-05-10 20:35
David,
Does it take a longer time to warmup your signature than other clarinets ?
I had play tested the instrument initially in my lower level which is about 4 degrees on avg cooler than my upper level. I also play test in my upper level which helps bringing the instrument up to warm temp quicker, and after a long warm up it was up to pitch. I was never able to get it close to pitch in the lower level neither was the customer.
I should put that ring back in just to see ...
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-05-10 21:38
It's been a while since I've even played my Signature, so don't remember. I got it as a spare.
But I don't recall any particularly long warmup. The long B can be airy on many, Ricardo got his corrected by Morrie. (when he was playing the Recital - yes, he had a Signature also).
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2011-05-10 22:29
I just checked a few things. In my lower level which is about 65 degrees at this particular moment (heat is turned off) i cannot get the signature warmed up to proper intonation as it plays very flat. upstairs at 71 it warms up just fine.
i've never really had this problem with other models ... learn something new. last signature i had my workshop was on the upper level.
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-05-10 23:35
If I remember past posts, wasn't the signature sold with a Selmer C85 mouthpiece? And wasn't that mouthpiece have a slightly narrower bore and was reputed to play a little on the higher side? Perhaps the "stock" configuration (including mouthpiece) would help.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-05-10 23:55
hmmmm. stinks. Well, best of luck on figuring it out. Hope it works out for you!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2011-05-12 20:15
Any vandoren 13 series is going to play flatter. If you can't resolve your problem, you can just give the signature to me.  I've always loved them every time I've tried them.
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Author: xarkon
Date: 2011-05-13 00:52
+1 to being sure you have the right mouthpiece. I have a Bb and A pair. With the 62.5 mouthpiece, after short warmup, they will play in-tune at reasonable room temp (72 - 75 degrees F).
I do have a couple of 60.5 mm barrels that I had made; I use these only if it is cool (e.g. 62 - 65 degrees).
Never bothered with the 64.5.
I use a Behn MP; advertised as "high pitch". A series 13 Vandoren will play very flat.
If you still can't get it to play in tune after checking this, it's time to take it to a tech.
Dave
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-05-13 02:41
It sounds like there's something wrong with the bore. I play that model and using the 62.5 or two different after market barrels, I have to pull out just a small amount after being fully warmed up. Have a tech check the bore against another Selmer Signature. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2011-05-13 13:16
Ed Palanker wrote:
>>It sounds like there's something wrong with the bore.<<
Yes indeed. Some "N-series" Signatures have bad bore (too small). I haven't noticed this problem with other series.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Eddydavik
Date: 2011-05-14 23:42
I play on a Signature with a .63mm barrel (440 model bought in Japan). I notice that the playing flat, but after some time, the instrument becomes sharper, to the point where I have to pull out to keep the mid range in pitch... The instrument I believe does have a thicker bore than most other clarinets in production, so my assumption has been that it (the wood) stays colder longer, keeping it flat.
Edward Escobar
Suita City Wind Ensemble
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