 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: keramaphoo
Date: 2011-04-29 21:10
Hello there, I'm new to these boards. I am a junior clarinet music education college student in NY. I've been playing on a LeBlanc Normandy 4 horn for about 2 years now. We (my parents and I) bought it for only about $500. I transferred last semester and my new teacher subs for the Met Orch and plays on a Backun horn, which sounds like heaven compared to mine. Today, he gave me an opportunity to buy the same horn as him for only $2300 when the retail price is, as we all know, A LOT more than that. The horn is being sold by a repair man who works for LeBlanc, so I know for a fact that this horn is going to be a good one. My mother won't agree to even go half and half on it because she doesn't see "the point of buying a new instrument". I've explained to her the importance of having the best instrument possible when you are becoming a professional musician and performer however not being a musician herself of course does not even have the slightest idea. So if you all could please respond as musicians, teachers, and performers why it is important to upgrade and have the best possible horn, I would really appreciate it. That way I can show my mom and hopefully convince her instead of her thinking I just want a new horn for the hell of it.
Thanks.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-29 21:52
To borrow Mottl's line from Fiddler on the Roof, "Even an ed major is entitled to some happiness!" If your plans include even part-time performing to supplement a teaching income and to keep yourself actively involved in what you're teaching (which in my opinion is important), you need good equipment. A music teacher ought to be a musician, too. It would be better, though, if you could find a way to put the money together on your own. Is Mom willing to put anything of her own funds toward it, even if not half? Would she be willing to lend you the rest, even to the point of writing up a formal loan contract that you would sign and she could hold over your head until you actually pay it back?
Karl
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-04-29 22:23
Karl beat me to the punch but I would suggest you go to your mom and ask her if she will loan you, rather than give you, what you can't come up with yourself. Tell her you have a rare opportunity that probably won't happen again. If you can set up a realistic repayment schedule, she will see that you are indeed serious about the instrument. I'm guessing you're pretty close to 20 years old, if not older. This is a good way to show your mom that you are well on your way to taking full financial responsibility for your life.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: clarinettist1104
Date: 2011-04-29 22:49
I agree about the loan! My parents agreed to loan me the full thing interest free, and I was to come up with the money. The loan was initially for $12,000 (R13 Prestiges), and I currently owe less than $5,500, having had a part time job at a local restaurant. I think that a loan is a fantastic way to go.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-04-29 23:28
I agree with the parent loan, if your mom is able to do that. If you can get a summer job (or extend job hours), you could have the money before the Fall semester.
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Author: Red Chair
Date: 2011-04-29 23:30
Perhaps your mum just likes buffet. You know, they look like real clarinets, made by talented technicians and used the world over by everyone from amateur to pro. Maybe she doesn't want you to be sucked into advertising hype and just buy what your teacher plays, maybe she would like you to think for yourself and try a few different horns as she knows almost anything will be an upgrade from what you have if you are looking in this price bracket and limiting yourself to just leblanc stuff seeems stupid.
just maybe....
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-04-30 01:28
Red Chair, have you ever played one of the Leblanc/Backun clarinets? I have. My Symphonie cost me less than an R13, and has better intonation and sound. THe keywork feels better in my hands, too. And I never liked Leblancs much before I tried this one. Morrie did a great job designing these instruments!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: keramaphoo
Date: 2011-04-30 02:02
I just asked for your inputs not a lecture but ok lol. I pay for everything, my clothing, car, gas, food, tuition AND dorming, so it's not like I'm mooching off of my parents like all of you are making me out to be. I was upset and I just wanted comfort and for people to tell me that I'm not crazy for wanting this instrument.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-04-30 02:24
Hi keramphoo,
You're not crazy to want this clarinet, and the advice offered aboveis not intended to imply you're a mooch. It is suggested by people who are parents or have worked out such a deal with their parents.
You should own, regardless of major, the best equipment you can afford and maintain.
Ignore the chip on some people's shoulder, and good luck!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Rob Harold
Date: 2011-04-30 02:27
If you didnt feel you needed a better horn before you were introduced to this great deal, then, I would say you dont need it, and if your mom doesnt think it is worthwhile, and you want her to front the money, then my advice is that you pass on it. There will be other horns when the need arises. (Not what you wanted to hear, sorry.)
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-04-30 02:29
Ummm...where in this thread did anyone say you were "mooching"? You posted, you got feedback. There you go. I didn't see any lecturing going on.
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2011-04-30 02:52
My 1st clarinet (purchased by my mom) when I was going into the 8th grade was a used yamaha 34. I used that horn faithfully all the way until last year (I'm 35 now). When a friend of mine that owns a local store had gotten in an R13 and gave be the "good ole boy" discount. Now I was never a music major I just kept playing on my own and in recent years began playing with several local groups and that was when I bumped up to a upper level horn.
I guess I sa all that to tell you that it is ok to want to upgrade to a new higher level horn. but if finances are not quite right at this time to get the horn do not stress over it. there will be others that will come up. Save up money until you can purchase the horn of your like out right. It will give you alot of comfort to be able to put down the money and pay for it and know that it is yours, you saved for it and earned it, and the disagreement with mom with nill because mom will be proud that you saved for it and that you are following through with you education also, I know that is what my mom would do.
Hope that comforts you in in the situation with the horn.
Bobby
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-04-30 03:42
I disagree with the parent loan idea 100%. There's really nothing worse than owing your parents money. Every time you stop by and visit, every phone call, there's that shadow in the back of your mind of "Man. I gotta pay." And at some point you'll be TEMPTED (not that you'll take it, but tempted mind you) to ask nicely to miss a payment cause something else came up. And then there's THAT shadow.
If you're gonna get a loan, get a personal loan from a bank. It has set payments, and a payoff date. And the only time you deal with them is SPECIFICALLY with the loan.
Personally, I'm trying to lower my debt from a few impulse type purchases. While you want to upgrade from the normandy, this backun horn isn't the ONLY horn out there. It's just on the front of your mind cause it's PHYSICALLY right there. I've played more than enough clarinets to know that there are some really good ones out there at affordable prices. You just have to be patient in looking and trying them out and really scrutinize each possible one.
I say save up, and keep the normandy as a backup. Your conscience and paycheck will be much happier and you'll be MUCH better prepared for emergencies or when you wanna order pizza if you don't have to keep money around for that bill due at the end of the month.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2011-04-30 11:41
keramphoo...
does your college/university make any provision for lending money for instrument upgrades, or does it offer any discounts/deals on specific instrument purchases through manufacturers?
You said in your original post that you "know this horn is going to be good."
Have you tried it? Have you play-tested others, or other brands? In other words, have you fallen in love with an idea of a clarinet, or do you know that this one--because it's a "deal"---is the one for you.
I hasten to add that this last question is not meant to deny you comfort in your time of need. We've all lusted after certain clarinets at one time or another, sometimes fatefully.
Post Edited (2011-04-30 11:43)
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Author: Red Chair
Date: 2011-04-30 12:09
I've tried the Leblanc/backun gear and I don't rate it. No projection and no depth of sound. To me the instruments play like a poor mans compromise between pure backun products and buffets. Perhaps the slogan for sales have been along the lines of 'want to look ridiculous AND have a weedy sound? Leblanc Symphonie is the answer!'
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-04-30 12:35
"No projection and no depth of sound."
For you this may be true, but we all know that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. It is also not what the OP has clearly heard in their experience.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: William
Date: 2011-04-30 14:48
Ah, YES, Tobin--"what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another."
No truer words have ever been spoken--or written. Personally, I feel the same as Red Chair about my set of Leblanc Concertos. While they play wonderfully, they just do not seem to project nor give me the flexability of tambre & dynamic to play as expressively as I want. My Buffet R13s do, and--although they are more difficult to control--they afford me with more musical freedom.
However, last evening I heard a UW student clarinetist play WONDERFULLY on her Leblanc Concerto and I was envious of her sound. Yet, for me, well.....you know the story.
Do not assume that the Backun clarinet offered by the repair tech is a good instrument unless you have played it and compared it to your own. There is a slight chance your calrinet may be the superior instrument in spite of it's rather low pedigree of clarinet models. Remember, as a junior mus ed major, you are "of age" and can make your own decisions. Spend your money wisely and do not be trapped by "impulse" buying.
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Author: Morrie Backun
Date: 2011-04-30 17:34
Hello,
I know the Clarinet technician personally and recommend him for the excellent work that he does. Since your teacher knows your playing well I suggest that you have them discuss the matter with your mother. Parents often have financial challenges with all the costs for education and lessons so you need to be understanding of your mother's side and she of yours.
You will receive many comments from a bulletin board. Some will be knowledgeable and well thought out.....others.......well you can judge those yourself. Unfortunately, most people do not know your playing or what your teacher gets to hear of your trials and triumphs.
Best of luck with your clarinet pursuits.
Morrie Backun
Backun Musical Services
604-205-5770
morrie@backunmusical.com
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Author: Rob Harold
Date: 2011-04-30 18:45
I think mom and son should be able to talk about this without the teacher and retailer joining in. It's true that we dont know how the playing has progressed. But we dont know what concerns the mother may have about how she spends her money. And I dont think she needs to explain herself to anybody if she doesnt want to spend her money.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-30 20:33
I would think at this point any such discussion between the OP and Mom would already have taken place. It's hard to know from Emika's original post what the family discussion has been so far.
Karl
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Author: William
Date: 2011-04-30 20:46
Regardless, I would never recommend buying a clarinet based solely on "who" worked on it or "what" model/brand it. The bottom line is, TRY BEFORE YOU BUY and spend your money wisely. Even the great Stadivarius made some "less than average" violins along with his masterpieces.
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2011-04-30 20:59
William wrote:
> Even the great Stadivarius made some "less than average"
> violins along with his masterpieces.
Really??
Can you cite an example?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-04-30 21:25
rmk54 wrote:
> William wrote:
>
> > Even the great Stadivarius made some "less than average"
> > violins along with his masterpieces.
>
> Really??
>
> Can you cite an example?
I think we can safely assume that even a Stradivarius made "his first violin". :-)
--
Ben
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2011-05-03 15:26
The more expensive / better instrument is out of reach -- for now. The solution, then, is to focus on playing the best you can on your current instrument. It may in the end turn out to be a good thing.
You learn to make a decent sound and to play reasonably well in tune on the "inferior" instrument and, one day, when the "superior" instrument is in your hands, you play at a higher level than someone who comes to the expensive instrument without the experience of knowing how to handle an inferior instrument.
I am all for the idea of playing top equipment, even for very young players. But this is one way to look your situation that might make it seem a little less negative.
Another thought: What you perceive as the "heavenly" sound made by your teacher is not necessarily all attributable to the instrument. Often, a first-class instrumentalist will sound pretty darn good, even on an inferior instrument.
Good luck.
Paul Globus
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-05-03 16:11
I think my 2 cents my be useful here.
Coming from a rather low income background (and that is saying it politely) I can tell you (the OP) that you might not be totally aware of your family's financial situation. Also, it sounds like your urgency to buy this clarinet is because of the good deal you are getting for it and it's immediate availability- not that you were looking for it first.
I can tell you also that, although the Backun clarinets are very good (IMO) and this is a good deal for one, the foremost question at hand is the money to buy the clarinet. If you don't have it and your family won't pay for it (the reason doesn't matter), let it go. If you really like the Leblanc/Backun clarinets you can buy one in the future- it will be even cheaper then.
I did my first GRADUATE recital on a Penzel Mueller clarinet that my teacher could barely make a sound on, literally! He pushed and bothered me all the time to get a better clarinet, but I couldn't; no money. I was working 8 days/week just to pay rent. About a year later I got a pair of used Buffet Festivals for a good deal using some leftover loan money.
Honestly, if you feel your Normandy is not that great, then send it in for some repair. You will be impressed if it is done well. I am constantly amazed how unimportant people think repair is. Send it in at least once per year.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-05-03 18:03
From Skygardener:
"Honestly, if you feel your Normandy is not that great, then send it in for some repair. You will be impressed if it is done well. I am constantly amazed how unimportant people think repair is. Send it in at least once per year."
That's a very valid point. When I got my Normandy some time ago, I asked my old clarinet professor to recommend a technician. After a brief consultation with the tech, I left it in his capable hands and a week later I had my Normandy back, restored, tweaked and massaged to perfection.
I've since upgraded the Normandy with a Backun MoBa grenadilla barrel, carefully selected from a lot of six that the nice folks at Backun Musical Services sent me for a trial.
The results? The Normandy is easy and fun to play and the tuning is very manageable. I've been showered with compliments on the rich tone, bold projection, and accurate tuning--along with offers to buy the clarinet if I should someday decide to part with it. I've sampled many fine clarinets over the years and there are just a few that I've liked more than my "humble" Normandy.
Since getting my Normandy back, I've run my other clarinets through the shop--all of which came back playing at a higher level than I could have possibly hoped for. I've come to the inescapable conclusion that my technician's abilities and attention to detail matter more than the pedigree of my clarinets.
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Author: Red Chair
Date: 2011-05-03 22:18
Despite Morries little dig in response to my comment, I do like his gear just not the two lower level Leblanc clarinets. They do seem like a compromise on so many levels that I don't see the point. I was able to try the new MOBA clarinets at Frankfurt, and they are great and seem like a fulfillment of his ideas, and if you want to make that sound then perfect, these are horns of your dreams. The Symphonie and cadenza lack the special sound that we know his gear can make and while people argue budget constraints, I don't see it. If you really like the Backun sound world then save and get the full deal, not the compromise version.
I have the same issue with the student range of barrels: they seem like half an idea. Why spend that money in a barrel where if you save for another few months you can get one that really sings?
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2011-05-04 08:06
It may be reduced in price, but it's still a lot of money.
You really have to TRY it. Even though it might be 'good', it might not be for you. I played a load of Leblancs and R13 and walked away with a Selmer Paris.
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Author: BassClarinetBaby
Date: 2011-05-05 10:45
Make your mum understand? Well actually, she doesn't have to do anything. You're in college and that means you're plently old enough to get a job and buy your own clarinet. At 17 I bought my own Buffet R13 with no help from my parents. You've got to work for what you get - not just expect your parents to do it for you.
If you can't afford the new instrument, work on making your Normandy sound as good as you can. And remember, more expensive or better-known brand will not necessarily equate to a better sound for you.
Never Bb, sometimes B#, and always B natural! ♫♪
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