 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clash
Date: 2011-04-24 13:17
I think they sound good on various clarinets.
I've seen people playing on them on
Eb Bb Bass Contra-Bass
Any opinions?
I heard that it sounds really bad on A clarinet.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-24 13:36
The result they produce has as much to do with the mouthpiece and the player's approach to tone production as with the characteristics of the reeds themselves. I find them to be difficult to keep focused. They tend toward flatness from the upper clarion register on up. And I don't like the slippery feel against my lower lip. For me it doesn't make any difference which instrument I use them with (I've never played a contrabass). I use them, the flaws (as I consider them) notwithstanding, if I'm using several instruments (including bass clarinet and saxes) in a theater pit and must move among them without time to re-wet reeds. I personally don't like playing on them for concert work.
Karl
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2011-04-24 15:28
I have the same experiences as Karl. I'm finding that biting is the only way I can get the upper range not flat and more focused-sounding. (This is for Bb clar. BTW)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2011-04-24 15:34
I like the Signatures, but find that they are very mouthpiece-specific for the strength that I use.
It helps to rotate 2 or three of them, and sometimes I need to switch from 4's to 3.75 and then back.
Also, you must align them carefully to the best spot (above or just placec at or slightly below the tip, or to the right or left, etc--whatever works best) and find just the right spot on the mouthpiece each time.
They are easily misaligned when tinkering w. the ligature.
Once you get the right strength, alignment, and mouthpiece combination, you are set for a long time with a sound that needs no clipping, rush, sandpaper, humidification, etc.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2011-04-24 15:47
Hi All my friends on the Clarinet BBoard:
Happy Easter to all, and I hope many of you had a Happy Passover holiday!
First, a disclaimer, I am a Legere Artist and promote their products.
The Legere Signature series and their regular Legere reeds, are the reeds of the future. In less than 20 years I believe we will all be using, in some capacity, a synthetic reed. Here's why (as I have stated many times on this BBoard and at my many lectures):
1) They do not require any "break-in" time. They play right out of the box!
2) They are consistently good for the entire life of the reed (about 3 months, played every day).
3) They are not affected by heat or cold, smoke or pyro-technics on stage or in pits. They do not require to be wet to play well.
4) They record as well as, if not better than, traditional cane reeds.
5) They respond and are consistent from day to day in any playing or performing situation. I have used them on all my single reed instruments at every venue in NYC: Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway, Greenwich Village Jazz Clubs, and all NYC smaller concert halls, with great results.
6) Legere Ltd. will REPLACE any reed of theirs that is not satisfactory. Perhaps a harder or softer reed is necessary, no problem, send it back for a replacement.
I know of no other reed manufacturer that can make that claim.
7) They sound "different" at first than a cane reed, but with patience and some small adjustments, one can easily make a Legere sound terrific.
8) All registers of the Legere reeds can be easily facilitated with small embouchure adjustments, perhaps more easily than some cane reeds.
9) Less reeds are needed in any players reed case, as the Legere reeds are much more consistent and fewer are needed as "back-ups".
10) COST: A big factor for most of us, I used Vandoren reeds and every possible good cane reed I could find for 40+ years. Out of a box of ten, I could make 5 or 6 play well, even 2 or 3 play great after much work and adjustments, but for a limited time, only for a few weeks.
Costs for cane reeds have risen here in NYC to $25 a box for Vandorens, and equally high prices for other popular brands. I hear they don't seem to be as good cane as "the good old days". Most players who come to me for advice on reed making and care, can find only a few good reeds per box. I have dozens of "great" easy to play, fine sounding Legere reeds that work every day, 7 days a week, 3-6 hours a day. I cannot find any cane reeds that can reach that high benchmark.
In closing, I'm sure many of you will stay with your cane reeds and perhaps not even try a Legere, and that's just fine. If you are happy with cane, stick with it. My feeling is: This new Legere synthetic product is better in the many ways I have enumerated above, and even more so for some.
If you try a Legere reed, give yourself a short time to adjust to the differences, you will be much happier with the consistent results you get from a great Legere reed. It is the reed of the future.
Another disclaimer: I am not paid by LEGERE LTD. in Canada, or told what to say in praise of their products. They do send me trial reeds for my advice and approval at no cost.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: William
Date: 2011-04-24 15:52
After trying many of the three models of Legere, none of them worked well for me on my soprano clarinets. The sax and bass clarinet Legeres were acceptable and played well. However, since I have switched to Forestone reeds for all of my soprano clarinet work (fun??), I also use them for alto and tenor sax as well. I just like the tone quality of the Forestones as oppossed to the sound of the soprano Legere which I perceive to be dull with "thuddy" articulation, especially in the upper register. FWIW, my mouthpieces are: effer--vintage Selmer HS**; soprano--Chicago Kaspar #14; bass--Grabner CX_BS; alto sax--"Hollywood" Gregory or Selmer "Jazz" C*; tenor--Guardala "Studio";
With Legere (and cane) reeds, I felt I had to play the reed--Forestones allow me to play the music.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-04-24 16:01
I don't know if I just have not found the right model and strength or am just too used to the feel/sound of cane, but I have tried the Legeres a number of times and have not found any that have worked for me. I have not been able to use them for any purpose. Maybe it will take a bit more experimenting.........
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-24 16:08
John Moses wrote:
> 7) They sound "different" at first than a cane reed, but with
> patience and some small adjustments, one can easily make a
> Legere sound terrific.
By this do you mean that after a time of getting used to Legeres the sound is identical to your best cane reeds, or is it still different and the adjustment must take place in the player's ear and imagination? In your opinion will a player simply learn to like the sound of a Legere, or can they actually be made to sound the same as good, well adjusted cane?
> 8) All registers of the Legere reeds can be easily facilitated
> with small embouchure adjustments, perhaps more easily than
> some cane reeds.
Are you talking here about intonation or only tone quality? One of my two biggest sources of discomfort is the difficulty I have keeping the pitch from going flat, especially above C6. I don't have that problem at all with cane unless the reed is far less resistant than I would consider usable on my mouthpiece. What embouchure adjustments do you recommend (biting harder not being the ideal, I wouldn't think)?
I'm genuinely interested in your opinions about this, not trying to be defensive of cane or confrontational.
Thanks,
Karl
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-04-24 16:10
I've used Legeres off and on for many years with mixed results, originals, Ontarios, and Quebecs. My experiences are similar to those of cxgreen48. I can get a decent sound through most of the range, but they are disappointing in the altissimo. However, I haven't tried the Signatures yet.
To those of you who use the Signatures and like them, I have a few questions.
1. Dave Thomas likes these reeds and uses them, but he's said that " . . . not every reed is great. In fact, I’d say one out of three is really good."
http://blog.davidhthomas.net/2009/09/legere-signature-reeds/
Do you agree with Dave? If he's right, getting a decent Legere Signature seems awfully expensive.
2. What mouthpieces work best with Legeres? I've used them on my M-15, but it doesn't seem to be the best combination.
Post Edited (2011-04-24 21:12)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-04-24 16:12
I use Legere and Forestone on my Bb. I agree with John Moses about them being very fussy about placement on the mouthpiece, but once this has been achieved they play very well, with none of the problems associated with cane.When you have found the sweet spot its easy to set the reeds up. I tried Forestone reeds after using Legere for some time, and for me the Legeres work better. The Legeres do tend to change their characteristics with time, becoming slightly softer, but with a sharp reed trimmer they can be clipped successfully. If you do this, only take a minute amount off the reed, a little goes a long way.
Tony F.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-24 16:36
clarinetguy wrote:
> Do you agree with Dave? If he's right, getting a decent Legere
> Signature seems awfully expensive.
>
Legere will exchange reeds the player isn't happy with, but that seems like a cumbersome process, and I assume the return shipping charges (which, granted, will be small) are the player's responsibility.
A more user-friendly way, though more difficult for Legere to keep track of, might be to send some number, maybe 3 - 5, reeds on approval (with a deposit), as many companies do with mouthpieces. You'd be billed in full for any reeds you don't return.
I've no idea of the folks at Legere have considered this.
Karl
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Author: clash
Date: 2011-04-24 18:22
I see many people arguing on tone,
for me as a player it definitely sounds different.
however for listeners, or on the recordings,
legere has same or better level of tone than cane reeds,
in my opinion.
I agree on flatness on high ranges though.
Post Edited (2011-04-24 18:22)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-24 18:55
clash wrote:
> however for listeners, or on the recordings,
> legere has same or better level of tone than cane reeds,
John Moses said he feels the Legeres record as well as or better than cane reeds. He would know, of course, which recordings he has made with what reeds. But I'm curious what you're basing your statement on. You (and John) may well be right, but I don't know how you or I would know about recordings (unless you're a commercially recorded clarinetist - I don't know who you are from your screen name) unless you know what reeds the players on specific ones were using.
Karl
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-04-24 19:26
I was curious about Legere reeds and tried Regular, Quebec, Ontario and Signature too in a few strengths with several mouthpieces. I agree, this is the reed of the future, but not the reed of the present.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-04-25 03:22
I love my Legeres. I've been playing on them for at least 12 years. Can't remember when I switched, now. I prefer the "standard" but have tried 1 Signature. I've also tried 'em on alto sax but I think I'm not a strong enough sax player to wield the strength I got!
I am in complete agreement with JJM here. Wouldn't go back to cane. All of my recordings have been made on Legeres.
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Author: metalheadsimon
Date: 2011-04-25 12:22
I purchased a legére signature around this time last year. I have to say im severly impressed by them, however in regards of concerts and things i tend to stick to cane. However in terms of saving money due to me having a softer legére reed to what i would play would, it is more responsive, showing any issues with my tonguing technique etc, and therefore i find it doubles up as a practice reed, saving my money considering i practice most days for around 3 hours, and as a uni student i find myself quickly polishing off a box of reeds, having this as a practice reeds helps to sort this problem.
If any one is on the edge of debating whether the price is too much for one plastic reed, i would strongly suggest trying one and if you dont like it selling it off. I recently showed my unimates them and since then ive sold off a softer reed than what i need, and 3 other friends have bought their own from online
Simon Cowton
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2011-04-25 19:37
Hi Karl & All:
I'm not sure I can answer all your questions, but I'll try a few answers that might help many of you with your choice of trying a Legere reed.
Karl asks:
"By this do you mean that after a time of getting used to Legeres the sound is identical to your best cane reeds, or is it still different and the adjustment must take place in the player's ear and imagination? In your opinion will a player simply learn to like the sound of a Legere, or can they actually be made to sound the same as good, well adjusted cane?
Me: Yes, the sound of a well chosen (strength & style) Legere reed will, with patience & in about a week, sound & feel as good as any cane reed you have ever used. That means, without any reed adjustments that may take hours or days, the Legere will play right out of the box, without any wetting & regardless of your playing conditions. Pretty great!
Karl again:
"Are you talking here about intonation or only tone quality? One of my two biggest sources of discomfort is the difficulty I have keeping the pitch from going flat, especially above C6. I don't have that problem at all with cane unless the reed is far less resistant than I would consider usable on my mouthpiece. What embouchure adjustments do you recommend (biting harder not being the ideal, I wouldn't think)?
Me: I mean intonation & tone quality will be as good as any cane reed, again, without any additional work. The pitch, for me, has always been about listening & chops. I play a Buffet R-13 with a FOBES 2L mouthpiece and a 3.5 Legere Signature Series reed. I do not have any intonation or tone quality issues, in fact, because of the consistency of the synthetic reeds, those former problems have been solved.
You might give a listen to one of my good Legere reeds on my Web site as you open it; The cadenza to "Rhapsody in Blue" on a live performance at Carnegie Hall in NYC with Stuart Molina, conducting & piano soloist.
Http://www.johnmosesclarinet.com
Note: If you don't have QuickTime Plugin, just go to Sounds 1 it's there also.
How does it sound to you? Like a good cane reed or a somehow compromised synthetic reed? We had played a 3 hour dress rehearsal at the Hall from 2-5pm that day, and then The Rhapsody opened our NY Pops concert at 8:00.
I used the same Legere reed for the rehearsal and that important concert, and it held up beautifully.
For those of you who were wondering about the Legere reeds when playing a "legit" concert, it works just fine at Carnegie Hall. For those of you who were wondering about the altissimo register, it works just fine (The Rhapsody starts on a "low G" trill and glissandos up to a "high C" then on to our "highest F", a pretty good test of the registers of the clarinet player & reed.
Again, I'm not suggesting you go out and buy a Legere reed, slap in on your mouthpiece and play "Rhapsody in Blue"! No, give yourself some time to adjust to the response and feel of this great Legere synthetic reed. If it doesn't work for you, by all means go back to your cane reed of choice...and good luck!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
Post Edited (2011-04-25 19:48)
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2011-04-25 21:24
My 3.75 Legere Signature has finally arrived, and from initial impressions, I think I'd like to take back my comment about the tone and pitch in the upper range.
I think the 3.5 Legere Signature may have been a tad too soft for me, resulting in the tone and pitch problems. The 3.75 lets me not need to bite nearly as much and pitch and tone is very manageable now.
I will say that I the tone is not the same as my cane reeds, but I wouldn't say it's bad. It's just like playing a different cut of a cane reed. Also, I do think Legeres record well, at least with my experiences with Garageband and my Legeres.
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2011-04-26 02:02
I have used them on Bb sop but prefer cane. On contra is another story, I get better results with Legere reeds.
Bobby
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-04-26 04:58
Dileep, I'm intrigued. I haven't heard about that yet. I can only assume he was using an Oehler clarinet too...
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-26 05:59
Well, who is he and how do we contact him?
Karl
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Author: justme
Date: 2011-04-26 08:42
Legere reeds doesn't seem to have hampered Larry Combs ( he's not using a German Clarinet by the way!) and a host of other well known artists as well...
Just Me
"A critic is like a eunuch: he knows exactly how it ought to be done."
CLARINET, n.
An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarinet -- two clarinets
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Author: hinotehud ★2017
Date: 2011-04-26 15:40
I am not a Larry Combs or John Moses, but I do have a masters degree for clarinet performance, and have been playing classical, jazz and klezmer for over 50 years. I now play on an R13, Vandoren M30 lyre, and a Legere Signature 3.75. I was playing on Vandoren V12 3 1/2 reeds. I think they play as well or better than my best cane reeds for response (in all registers) and intonation. What convinced me to switch was when I asked my wife (an excellent flutist and band director) and a cellist (retired orchestra director) to compare tone qualities of the Legere and my best cane reed. (I thought the Legere seemed a little brighter.) They both thought the Legere had a darker tone, which they preferred.
Every time I try my Vandoren reeds again, I find always prefer the Legere.
At the ICA Conference in Austin, this summer, an excellent grad student was performing a very demanding solo in a masterclass. When he finished, the audience gave an audible gasp when it was pointed out that he was playing on a Legere reed. He had an excellent tone in all registers.
I tried other Legere reeds but found only the Signature felt and played like my V12s. I was lucky to find a music store that had a variety of Signature reed sizes to try.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2011-04-27 03:14
I have heard some wonderful performances on players using Legere reeds. Steve Cohen uses Legere reeds exclusively and sounds absolutely great on them. You cannot tell he is not playing on a cane reed.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: clarinetmc
Date: 2011-04-27 04:46
Richard Hawkins is a legere reed artist and sounds fantastic...go to his website, all of his recordings are done on legere reeds...you'd never know it's not cane!
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Author: whole note
Date: 2011-04-28 19:40
I agree that Steve Cohen sounds amazing on Legere reeds and I was lucky to have a lesson with him last summer at Indiana University's Clarinet Workshop.
I felt vindicated when lamenting that I get a lot of negative feedback from people for using Legeres and his advice was, "just don't tell anyone, and they'll never know."
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2011-04-28 19:49
I experience Legere reeds the same as John Moses. I started playing the Signatures a year and a half ago, and obtain outstanding results:
My altissimo is not flat, as some have asserted.
Articulation is easy.
Tone quality is flexible, bendable to any desired timbre, from dark (for Brahms) to bright (for Dixieland).
I'm an amateur, not a pro like John, but play a lot, some of them paid gigs, (just did Romance, Romance and Bye Bye Birdie; next is Hairspray) and I use Legere on all my instruments: Eb, Bb, A, alto and bass clarinets, alto and tenor sax. On each of them the result is excellent.
They last a long time, but eventually wear out. You'll know when the reed starts to wear out: it loses some of the core and the resonance dimimishes.
The placement on the mouthpiece is absolutely critical with these reeds. For me, I must have them absolutely centered on the table and absolutely aligned with the rails. 5 seconds of testing the placement by playing reveals for me if I have it placed correctly.
I've tried Forestone (I believe I was the first poster who mentioned Forestone on this board) but that was when they first appeared on the market. At that time I was disappointed. Don't know how they would compare with the Legere Signatures now, but I'm so pleased with Legere, I have no impetus to try Forestone again.
As for cane reeds, I'd never want to go back to spending 2 or 3 hours a week breaking in, checking, sanding, checking again, sanding etc. I'd rather use those 2 or 3 hours practicing.
The results I get with Legere Signature right out of the package is equal to the perfected cane reed (after all the breaking in and work on it).
Vann Joe
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-04-28 21:26
hmm last time i tried the signature i wasn't very impressed. the biggest issue i had was i felt that i lost the ability to go pianissimo.. and the sound is quite different to my ear compared to cane reeds. I was wondering at the time whether that is mouthpiece-dependent, because hawkins sure sounded just as good with legere.
now i'm using a different mouthpiece, and reading all the positive comments above, i'm again tempted to try it out
that being said, i have been using it on my alto saxophone. but for that i play mostly outside in a marching band, of which sound doesn't matter that much. for clarinet it's a completely different story and my teacher would yell at me for an entire lesson if my sound is not up to his expectation.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-28 23:48
whole note wrote:
> I felt vindicated when lamenting that I get a lot of negative
> feedback from people for using Legeres and his advice was,
> "just don't tell anyone, and they'll never know."
Well, they do *look* just a little different.
Karl
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-05-12 17:45
Had to add to this thread.
Because I teach high school students who complain out how many reeds they go through in marching season and because of my curiousity after reading the posts here, I decided to purchase a Legere Signature, 3.5 for myself to give it a try.
I was immediately pleased with the response the moment I played it. For not having done a thing to it, it played well. The tone is not bad. Yes, I could tell the difference but it wasn't like night and day. I will be recommending these to my students for marching season. As we all know, marching season stretches from band camp in the summer all the way through competitions and parades at the end of fall. It would be nice for the students to have reliable reeds that would play in all sorts of circumstances.
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-05-12 18:58
i agree that legere is (at least) perfect for marching. i use it for marching on my alto. i still am not satisfied with the result for its classical playing on clarinet though...
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-05-12 21:51
Regardless of what advanced performers may or may not think of these reeds, there is no doubt in my mind that a well chosen Legere is better than 99.9999% of the reeds my younger students bring to lessons. In ALMOST every instance a student in the first years of playing has improved after I've encouraged their parents to get them a Legere reed.
dn
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Author: AJN
Date: 2011-05-13 05:17
I've done a lot of intensive experimentation with both Legeres and Forestones over the last two years. I'm not a professional, but I've been playing for quite a few decades and I know what I like. I'm very picky about reeds.
The first synthetics I tried were the older Legeres -- Regular, then Qebec and Ontario. I couldn't do a thing with them. Didn't like the sound, thought they played flat (and not only in the altissimo), and they weren't even flat on the back side: Put them on a piece of glass and they'd rock (not side to side, but end to end) -- every one of them, at least to some extent. This made placement of the ligature ridiculously critical: ligature too low and the tip of the reed would stand away from the tip of the mouthpiece and the thing would be horribly resistant. Ligature too high and the reverse would happen. Unworkable.
When the Forestones first came out I liked them much better and used them pretty much exclusively for quite a long time. They weren't perfect. For example, the overall design of the Forestone includes a comparatively thin tip, which is not an unmixed blessing. I also found that I couldn't just hold the mouthpiece constant and find the right Forestone strength for it. They simply worked better on some mouthpieces than others. I ended up using a relatively soft Forestone on a Vandoren B40. It worked very well.
Then about a year ago (?) Forestone changed their lineup of reed strengths (reducing the total number of different strengths, if I remember correctly) and I never could quite find the right strength after that.
In the meantime the Legere Signature was introduced. I started experimenting with those on various mouthpieces. I've had quite a lot of success with them -- mostly on various Vandoren mouthpieces, as it happens, and not on the "fancier" ones I've tried with them. Anyway, the combinations that work for me are B40 with a Legere Signature 2.75, B45 with a 3.0, and 11.6 with a 3.25. The last of those three combinations is my favorite at the moment and it works very, very well. I like the sound, I have no intonation problems, fine access to the altissimo etc. Added to the consideration that they always work and work the same way, immediately eliminating the hassle of cane, it seems a no-brainer to me. One thing to add: Although each Legere Signature is the same every time it's played, they're definitely not exactly the same as one another. Some are just a touch stiffer or lighter than others even if they're labeled the same strength.
Alan Nussbaum
Ithaca, NY
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