 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 2E
Date: 2011-02-10 00:45
3 days ago the Chicago Symphony Orchestra reposted their advertisement for principal clarinet on musical chairs which you can see here
the post links to their website with downloadable audition excerpts and repertoire list which you can see here
interesting stuff.
and so it begins ... again ...
2E.
Post Edited (2011-02-10 00:49)
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2011-02-10 02:02
In regard to what you state Alex, I've noticed that the most pretigious orchestras do not denote specific passages. In order to play in one of these ensembles, I think it's expected that you can perform the entire part perfectly, with convincing knowledge of the work as a whole. To me this type of list indicates that they are looking for a consummate, experienced musician that doesn't need to be told to prepare "from the beginning to letter B of the Scherzo from A Midsummer Night's Dream," as many lists will indicate. Although anything is possible, I doubt the chosen principal clarinet of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra will be fresh out of university/conservatory.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-02-10 04:00
If that were the case, you'd think they would have less trouble deciding on someone to fill the spot.
I think that demanding someone know 26 pieces of rep backward and forward precludes a good number of possibly very creative, interesting performers in favor of people who have been doing it for years, and also scares off lots of people who could do an awesome job of it but don't find it worth their time to ace all the rep in advance.
At a time when orchestras are having trouble reinvigorating their musical scene, I think it does a terrible disservice to limit your potential player-base to people who are likely already bored out of their mind with the rep. While it's possible for someone who's played Beethoven 4 734 times to give a compelling performance, I think you have a better chance of something exciting happening with someone who's only played it once or twice.
Problem is, you have a metric crapload of people who know all the rep, who know where in the rep the excerpts are, and who have it all under their fingers. And that's ALL THEY HAVE EVER PLAYED. And because they've played it so often, many of them have decided upon one way (or a narrow range of ways) to play it. Once it's so deeply entrenched, it's like pulling teeth for a conductor to get anything different, assuming the conductor has half a brain about how to do that, which is quite often not the case.
(I have a lot of beef with the concept of using excerpts as a metric for auditions...)
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tdinap
Date: 2011-02-10 04:28
The excerpts they provide do actually have brackets marking the sections they want you to learn. I would bet that with the extreme conventionality of this list, most people could guess with almost absolute certainty what sections they'll want to hear of the pieces they haven't provided.
Seems to me they're a little obsessed with "the old standards", though--the excerpt list is almost directly out of "The Working Clarinetist", and even the sightreading is going to be "from the standard repertoire"! Is no one interested in how the candidate might fare when interpreting a new piece for the first time? I'm sure an orchestra at this level occasionally debuts new pieces where the soloists would have to create the first ever performance of their part. I'll admit I am biased towards new music, but it seems a little shortsighted of them to just say "aha, we didn't ask for Tchaikovsky 5, let's see how they handle 'sightreading' that!"
Tom
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Author: JAS
Date: 2011-02-10 04:38
I don't know that I agree with the idea that musicians of the Chicago Symphony's caliber are "bored out of their mind with the rep".
The best musicians in the world aren't just "clarinet" or "oboe" or "violin" fanatics...they have a love for music as a whole, not just the realm of their respective instrument alone.
If you're looking at it solely from a TECHNICAL standpoint than yes, I would agree with you, but I think you forget that the excerpts that we spend so much time laboring over are a part of works of genius. And the best musicians in the world don't generally forget this.
Sadly, I guess I can defeat my own point here: A lot of CLARINETISTS forget this. The world's great pianists, violinists, conductors, etc do not.
And I think Ricardo Muti, a musician who's talent far surpasses that of any candidate of these auditions, has a half brain far sufficient enough to do so. Assuming he'll be able to return.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2011-02-10 05:42
In regard to JAS's post, these are great thoughts. Maybe these are some of the reasons why such orchestra's are having so much difficulty filling this position. Perhaps the vast majority have lost touch with the music as a whole.
The few candidates that haven't either A.) don't fit with the ensemble or B.) decline the position in favor of another position as they are such high demand.
I hardly have the status to declare this to be the ultimate truth. I wonder if some of our more prestigious readers have thoughts to share.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2011-02-10 11:53
>>Is no one interested in how the candidate might fare when interpreting a new piece for the first time?
>>
Funny you should mention it. Just a couple of nights ago, one of the cable TV stations ran a program about an international competition for young harp players, in the southwest United States. (I'm sorry I don't remember the station or the name of the program, but I think it dated from 2007.) The student musicians who advanced a level had to play a new work that had won an earlier composers' competition leading up to this competition. The students were not sight-reading and I think they'd had time to work on the piece with their teachers. This was a competition with a prize of a new, $55,000 Lyon and Healy harp, not for a seat in an orchestra, and it was not a blind audition. As I watched, I thought that requiring a piece of new music was a great idea. The contestants can't just listen to CDs or their teachers and copy.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-02-10 13:11
It's perfectly legitimate -- essential, I think -- to require that auditioners at the the CSO principal level know the standard repertoire cold and be able to play it with zero fluffs and with strong musical projection, even the 735th time. That's what the CSO does.
Certainly they should play new music, but that has nothing to do with playing the standard repertoire. They need to do both.
The physical and aesthetic engagement of music springs up anew with each performance. No matter how many times you play the Beethoven 4th, it's a thrill to join the collective effort of the orchestra and the audience. As Artur Schnabel said, this is music that's better than it can be played in any one performance.
Sure it's boring to repeat music every day. French National Defilé is a fine march, but the West Point Band used to play it in parades once and often twice a week, and everybody's eyes glazed over when the nutty CO called for it. But it's unlikely that the CSO programs the Beethoven 4th more often than once a season, or even once in two seasons. I doubt that Midsummer Night's Dream gets programmed twice in five years.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2011-02-10 15:56
I just do not understand the logic of the CSO audition panel. They already have some of the worlds finest and most competent clarinetists ON STAFF--in place with years of experiance playing the music the CSO likes. Save a bunch of money and time on the international search process and appoint either Johh Yeh or Greg Smith to the principal position IMMEDIANTELY. It's a fact that the average orchestral patron will not notice any significant difference between Yeh, Smith or Moreles clarinetistry--as long as the correct notes are played in tune with impeccable musical feeling. It's just us ultra picky clarinetists that can hear those kinds of differences, and then, it really comes down to personal preference as there is no "best" in our world.
No one, anywhere, plays clarinet any better than John Bruce-Yeh and he should be appointed permanent principal clarinetist of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. End of story.............
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-02-10 17:18
Yeh is one hell of a bass clarinetist too, as evidenced by his solo CD "Dialogues With My Shadow". As I understand it he started with the CSO on bass clarinet. The man certainly can play.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-02-10 17:20
William wrote:
> I just do not understand the logic of the CSO audition panel.
Well, that puts you in lots of good company - since we aren't privy to any of the inner workings we won't, in all likelihood, ever know what logic (or illogic) is at work here.
> It's a fact that the average orchestral patron will not notice
> any significant difference between Yeh, Smith or Moreles
> clarinetistry--as long as the correct notes are played in tune
> with impeccable musical feeling. It's just us ultra picky
> clarinetists that can hear those kinds of differences...
>
Again, I don't know (and anyone who does know isn't talking about it) what dynamics are involved among the members of the audition committee or between the committee and the Music Director. But keep in mind that the committee members are in all likelihood principals of their own sections - including the other woodwind sections. Those players are presumably sensitive enough to hear the differences at least as well as, probably better
than, "us picky clarinetists" if only because they hear the playing up much closer than most of us do and they are more keenly aware than most of us of what's demanded of someone in this position day after day. We don't know if this impasse comes from Muti or from the committee's inability to agree on one player (other, apparently, than Morales). But if it's the committee who can't agree, there may well be history and conflicting egos involved between specific committee members and either or both Mr. Yeh and Mr. Smith.
Karl
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2011-02-10 17:39
And it continues over and over again. Must be some kind of golden god their are looking for over in Chicago and New York
[ Edited - GBK ]
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-02-11 01:21
There's a lot of notes and pieces to have under your belt. It seems to be a very hard audition and it should be, because it's a top orchestra, or perhaps the top orchestra.
I don't think the position will go to a young player, perhaps someone around 30 or older will be offered the job. It's simply too much music to know at a young age, right out of college.
It is also possible they don't want to fill the position yet. Ticket sales are surely down as most symphonies have felt the effects of the recession. The orchestra may just want a really great player to sit in for a year or so and wait to see if ticket sales go up before offering a full-time position. The orchestra may also be hoping that there will be a money crash and the first chair player may only be offered $70,000 a year, as the other orchestra positions also take a hit by 1/3 or so. These are just numbers I'm throwing out. But the reality is orchestras have felt ticket sales go way down.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-02-11 01:33)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-02-11 02:15
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> I wrote what I wrote before - Muti.
>
> And for sure that came from a committee member.
>
Well, if that's the case, Muti must be in conflict with the committee over what he's listening for. They want one thing and he wants another. If that's the case, it isn't a question of dreaming or searching for the unattainable, it's simply Muti's ego colliding with the collective ego of the audition committee and they've reached a standoff. I'm a little surprised that there isn't something in their CBA that invokes some kind of process by which to force a decision of some kind.
Karl
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-02-11 03:59
Bob,
I expect the principal clarinet job in Chicago will probably be closer to $220,000 - $250,000 than to $70,000.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-02-11 10:22
Or, as we've already surmised, he's waiting for someone who is currently under a contract he/she can't get out of.
Karl
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2011-02-11 16:13
With regards to the long audition list, I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a candidate to have total mastery over the entire list, not just the solo's.
When I was a member of the Civic Orchestra of Chicago years ago, I remember John Yeh telling the clarinet section something I found rather interesting. We were working on Mahler 1 at the time and Mr. Yeh told us he must have performed the piece well over 50 times(The number must have been larger-I can't remember for sure). He then went on to tell us that the orchestra always brings two pieces of music with them on every tour as backup's. One was a Beethoven symphony and the other was Brahms 2. I don't want to miss represent what he said as I don't remember the conversation word for word but I got the impression that the CSO could perform either piece flawlessly, with no rehearsal, and at a moments notice.
After hearing that, I don't find it strange at all to ask a player to play tutti passages from Tchaik 6 for example. You have to have chops and a lot of experience to be a section leader in this ensemble. While I have a hard time understanding why the process has gone on this long, I have never questioned the audition list and actually feel it is pretty fair. I have seen much more difficult lists for orchestras that don't have the same work load or high profile.
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