 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Laurelin
Date: 2011-01-16 19:31
Does anyone have tips to get rid of that little hesitation buzz that happens to me when I play A5 or B5? For some reason it doesn't happen with C6, and of course the altissimo notes tend to squeak, not... not sound. I'm practicing C. Rose's number 3 etude from the 40 studies, and I want to make sure that I at least have the right idea for how to fix it.
Number 3's the large interval eighth note one.
I haven't played in about 5 years, but that seems to be the only major thing wrong with my tone for now. Pretty sure I had a little touch of that hesitation before, too, but not this bad.
No, I don't have a teacher currently, and yes, I know I should get one. Working on it. I'm in the NoVa area, and I'm going to GMU next year if anyone has suggestions.
Also working on the Mozart Concerto, but this board has plenty of info on that.
Thanks!
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-01-16 19:41
It may be the way that you are voicing the notes, however, that aside, it could be maybe there is something clogging up the tone holes? It could also maybe be a reed issue. Have you tried using different reeds, same reeds different strengths, etc? Check your instrument especially the register key tubing at the top. Sometimes that hole can get very full of gunk sometimes. Just some suggestions, it could be something else.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2011-01-16 19:50
Since I haven't observed you play, these are some possibilities, but by no means the only ones.
1. The little hesitation buzz on A5 and B5 you describe is often referred to as undertone or a grunt. It's a pretty common issue with those notes, although it's common to also have that issue with C5 as well.
Michael Norsworthy, a frequent poster on this board, made a video about this for Rico. It addresses the issue you describe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLZgfSs6Jes&feature=related
2. Altissimo squeaks/hesitation. There are so many things that can cause this, some of them are equipment issues and some of them are player issues. Since you describe the issue of the grunt/undertone, it may be caused by a combination of excess lip pressure on the reed paired with inadequate airspeed. Regarding both of these issues, check out this video, also by Michael Norsworthy for Rico: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJXt566KlH0&feature=related
3. Get a qualified teacher ASAP. There are many wonderful clarinetists/teachers in your area. There are about 125 premier service band clarinetists that all play at a very high level, and many of them teach lessons. Some of them live in Northern Virginia, some of them live in DC, some in Maryland, but you should be able to find one nearby without too much trouble! E-mail me, and I can refer you to some that might be close to you.
Good luck!
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-01-16 23:07
Of course all the suggestions above could be the reason but it sounds like it may be the way you release your tongue or if you choke or pinch just as you begin the note. Could be any number of reasons besides that. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Laurelin
Date: 2011-01-16 23:14
Thank you very much - that video was interesting. And it is definitely the undertone thing, not a reed buzz.
After messing with it for a while, it seems like the undertone only appears when I'm tonguing. If I just use air to start the note, I can get it without the grunt. So something is wrong with my tonguing. Again.
The major problem with getting a teacher isn't availablity; I know NoVa is absolutely brimming with spectacular musicians. The problem is that they are all expensive. So I'm jury-rigging it for now. I have a nice setup, I know how to identify problems, and what the words 'slow' and 'metronome' mean, though I dislike them intensely. But that's what dynamics are for, right?
I'm not in a performance group, I don't have recitals, so I can just work on myself by myself until the fall. Then I can ask the GMU faculty for some help.
Meanwhile, I have the Baermann 3rd, have picked out an etude from C. Rose, and have K622. I need to go slow, use the metronome, and build up all my muscles again. I've also got excersizes left over from a previous teacher.
Thank you for the help.
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Author: luckyclarinettoenla
Date: 2011-01-17 01:17
Laurelin,
Hi neighbor! Your plight is definitely felt by a lot of people who read this board regularly. One thing that I found helpful with undertone/squeaking challenges is to play a passage completely slurred and then play it with articulation (in a 16th note passage, play 2 slurred 2 tongued etc). The goal of this exercise is to make the passages sound almost identical. As seen in many postings on here you'll begin to realize how little of the tongue actually needs to make contact with the reed. I think that sometimes we tongue unnecessarily hard when really articulation is an interruption of the airstream, not a complete stoppage. While doing this I also found that adjusting where the tongue connects with the reed makes for very telling results! Keep trying; you'll figure it out. The best advice I've received recently on trying to overcome playing obstacles is to pretend that you're in the bleachers during HS football game goofing off with the rest of your clarinet buddies. That mindset works every time with me.
Cheers,
Gary
Never fool yourself into believing that today's 'good enough' will do tomorrow!
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-01-17 02:17
There could also be other issues to look into, because hitting these notes and actually going a bit higher, beyond C6 can relate to reeds, the mouthpiece, the lay/curve of the mouthpiece, reed strength, along with what everyone has said. Even your ligiture can play a part, for example if you tighten the ligiture too much. In fact I usually cut out as much of a ligiture as I can, due to weight and vibration.
It is my belief from playing a gillion reeds at my old job at Rico, the whole mouthpiece and even the barrel vibrate and are factors in playing the high notes. When testing reeds and cane everyday I'd play scales and 3rd's up to C6 and above. So what I'm trying to convey is practicing high notes everyday and getting the feel of good reeds will surely help you nail down high notes. I like to practice playing in thirds starting from G just above the staff and working your way up from there. By practicing you will most likely find that different fingers will help you pop out the notes and pop them out in tune. Clarinets are not perfect, nor are your standard fingerings for the clarinet. An example when playing the throat G, G#, and A. I add the right hand fingerings to help tame these notes. I think most pro's do the same.
I'm not suggesting changing your gear, but talk to your instructor(s) and perhaps have him/her play your setup. He/she can most likely set you up with the right reed strength, the MP, and the ligiture. I'm using Vandorens now. When at Rico I was able to hit all of the notes using lighter reeds, such as a Rico Royal. Using the correct fingerings for your personal clarinet may be part of the whole puzzle.
One time at Rico all of the musicians were messing around in my office, messing with ligitatures and one of them made a bet with me that I couldn't tell the difference between ligitures. They put a blindfold over my eyes and I guessed everyone. This is not unusual, as most pro's can do this, but the point is stressing how important just a simple ligiture can make. That's such a small part of the whole setup.
Keep digging, asking a lot of questions, and of course practice the highs everyday.
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Author: Laurelin
Date: 2011-01-17 03:05
This is all really useful. Like I said, I just picked up the clarinet a week ago after 5(!) years of not playing, so things must have changed in the downtime.
So, since you are all talking about setup - I've got a Buffet R13 - the regular kind, bought ten years ago - standard barrel, a M13 mpc, profile 88, with the Vandoren optimum ligature. I found that size 4 Vandoren reeds were too hard, which seems strange because I'm pretty sure that mouthpiece needs hard reeds, but whatever. So I'm playing V12 at strength 3 1/2.
It sounds absolutely beautiful, except that little bit of undertone on the high notes and the occasional squeak. Drives me nuts. Like I said, the undertone only seems to happen when I tongue, so I'll go ahead and see how much lighter I can make my tongue. I kinda wanted to fool around with double tonguing anyway - I saw some youtube videos of Martin Frost and he took my breath away. I thought Sabine Meyer was good and Neidich was fast, but I could listen to that guy play Mozart all day.
Bored at marching band is a wonderful metaphor, by the way. I like that. We would always do all kinds of weird stuff - from figuring out the mission impossible theme to playing the clarinet like a trumpet - take off the mouthpiece, put your lips to the barrel, buzz away. Experimentation is fun.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-01-17 16:06
DON'T EVER DO THIS.
IT IS BAD FORM,
but sometimes, you can get an alti note to speak by starting it with only have of the left forefinger hole open.
Many pros and teacher advocate half holing, but my experience (in taking months and months and months to "forget it") is that the attack, intonation and timbre are all better off without it.
Most of what you've been told here requires a lot of experimentation, and boils down to being sort of "guided trial and error." My teacher has so much experience that he can almost without error tell me exactly what to do to correct such a problem. It then takes me a while to implement his advice.
Expensive? Yes! Good Value? Certainly!
I usually leave my weekly lesson with something of great value.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-01-17 16:27
Sorry, late to this one.
You may also try playing this etude in the way prescribed many years ago by Clark Brody:
NOT IN TIME; start low note as LOUD AS POSSIBLE, at some point slur up to high note AS SOFT AS POSSIBLE, continue through those first few staves. The idea is to play VERY slowly and almost deliberately out of time (particularly as you get used to this severe contrast of dynamics).
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Laurelin
Date: 2011-01-17 19:41
That's a cool idea, Paul.
And I have learned half-holing - I don't usually do it, but sometimes it's useful; usually for going to the altissimo D and E from the clarion register. Interesting that you say not to do it - I have been told that it makes things smoother.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-01-17 20:26
The grunt happens mostly on Buffet A clarinets. I've never had one on my Bb.
If there's a professional player in Manassas, call and ask him/her to test-play your clarinet for a few minutes to find out whether it's you or the clarinet.
Manassas is close enough to Washington that you could call up one of the National Symphony players and go there for a diagnosis of both your instrument and your playing.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-01-17 22:07
"The grunt happens mostly on Buffet A clarinets." - Ken Shaw
I totally agree with you Ken.
If you notice the Bb tube is much smaller in length compared to the A clarinet. Simply look down the upper joint of the clarinet bores and compare the A and the Bb horns. In the past I would sand down the A clarinet tube, but not anymore. It takes too long and it's not an exact science.
There is a wonderful repairman at RDG here in Los Angeles, that will mail you a tube that is located under the octive key. It is shorter and actually gets rid of that "Grunt," on the A clarinets. Being a repairman myself it can be tricky removing them sometimes, so have your local repairman pop it out and replace it with Levi's shorter tube. He only charges $10 or so for this tube. I bought a new A clarinet a few months ago and bought this from RDG and replaced it myself. Oh, Levi works at RDG. The new tube was a tiny bit thinner so I had to seal it, because it can leak. I also had to heat the old tube to get it out; some are glued in others pop out so easy. Anyway, Levy has turned this guessing game that I used in the past into a science.
Another thing I do is check the distance of your octive key and see how much it opens. If there is a pretty big gap have your repairman either bend the octive key down a bit or add a thicker cork by the thumb. That cork is often too thin. This can also get rid of a grunt on a Bb and an A clarinet simply by closing the gap.
By the way, when I play those 3rds, starting from G above the staff, I articulate these notes. This will help you with your tonguing as Eddie Palanker pointed out and gave you instructions how to do this.
Check your M13 clarinet mouthpiece with a tuner. I (think) there are 2 types of M13 mouthpieces. Some M13's are longer than others and not all of the M13 MP's play the same. I have the 2 types and perfer the shorter one by far on Buffet R13 clarinets.
Playing on a Vandoren 3 1/2 strength reed is about right. From a very early age going back to my Interlochen Arts Academy days, I always preferred a harder reed. Then from playing all of those gillion reeds at Rico I have a pretty strong/ heavy mouth setup. I think your choice of playing a 3 1/2 is fine with that Vandoren MP. People that play with a double lip generally use softer reeds. As one that plays with a double lip I am still able to use V-12 #4's. This is most likely unusual, but again the face muscles may be a shade stronger then others.
It really sounds to me that you have a good setup and just need daily practice with the high notes. I think everyone should practice these, so there are no surprises if you go to an audition and the clarinet teacher asks you to do this; play a C scale all the way up to the stratosphere!
Keep us posted with your practicing. Give yourself around a month and check back in to the board and maybe you will have other questions.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-01-17 22:33)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-01-17 22:11
I had another thought on getting the altissimo to speak.
My Buffet is a whole lot happier if my fingering is perfectly set when initiating the note --and that means having the right pinky Eb key depressed.
Supposedly the use of the Eb is for intonation, but I need it for more than just that.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-01-17 23:28
The opening between the register vent and the pad should be just enough so that you can slide a nickel under it.
A possible problem may be that the register tube has lint or crud in it. Take off the register key and run a damp pipe cleaner through it.
Most repair shops put a cork pad on the register key, and many bevel the cork to create better venting.
Ken Shaw
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