 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-01-10 13:36
I went into the Glennie talk with considerable suspicion, but she converted me. A GREAT presentation.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-01-11 04:26
She is a very engaging speaker. 32 minutes went by very quickly. I was most interested in her dealing with the written page. There is so little information given to us on the page itself.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-01-11 16:02
Is there a lesson on ligatures in her demonstration?
The stick "bangs harder" when you don't hold it tightly.
A youTube cello demonstration of bowing gives the same result: a tight grip on the bow silences the string!
Bob Phillips
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2011-01-11 16:44
Bob,
I would say the principal applies to the ligature and reed. The tighter the ligature the less the reed vibrates.
This was a truly great video. I would also recommend the Ben Zander video.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-01-11 20:43
Yes, we can all learn from this.
Of course, Evelyn Glennie is a wonderful player. She has an instinctive understanding of performance atmosphere, and a wonderful technique.
It's important, though, not to take what she says out of the context in which she says it.
For example, it is true that what she calls 'translation' of the musical text (simply 'following the instructions on the page') is insufficient.
But we then have to ask: "Insufficient for WHAT?"
You see, in some contexts -- say, an ensemble piece -- the answer to that 'what?' may set quite strict limits on a performer. In those circumstances it may be quite inappropriate for them to do the crescendi that Evelyn uses to 'up the excitement level' of the change in timbre that the varying position of the drumstick produces at the beginning of her example. And there may be other reasons not to take a faster tempo -- which she also does.
So, that's true of ensembles. But even in a solo piece, LOCAL excitement may need to defer to global pacing.
So, the 'what?' in "Insufficient for WHAT?" is important. How are we to build our responses to the score into a coherent whole?
I would say that Evelyn misrepresents the variety of the answers to this question when she says, of someone who played as she did in her first example, "[their] career would probably last about five years." That would only be true if they couldn't do anything else.
Of course, she's doing a short talk, and has to simplify, so I forgive her.
But there is a danger in simplification, because you may be misunderstood. When someone says here, in response, "I was most interested in her dealing with the written page. There is so little information given to us on the page itself..."
...I find I have to say that that is only half the picture.
Of course, nobody wants an automaton, and we certainly hear too many of those. But equally, nobody wants someone who, in a work written by a master, gratuitously CHANGES what is on the page itself. And a very large number of players DO gratuitiously change what is on the page itself, thinking that what is there is not worthy of their consideration. If you point this out to them, they are amazed. "But, that's my INTERPRETATION," they say.
They just don't think it's worthwhile bothering to look seriously at what Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms, Debussy etc have put in front of them.
However, I trust Evelyn, because she produces the goods. And as she says, "...all of my performances are based on entirely what I experience, and not by learning a piece of music, putting on someone else's interpretation of it, buying all the CDs possible of that particular piece of music, and so on and so forth. Because that isn't giving me enough of something that is so raw and so basic, and something that I can fully experience the journey of."
There's one other thing I want to comment on. It's the idea that some people here often get a mistaken hold of: namely, that VIBRATION is something good, in and of itself.
Rather, somebody's good playing IS the promotion of the vibrations that that good player WANTS, AND the suppression of the vibrations that that good player DOESN'T want.
(Wants FOR WHAT? you have to ask again. See, it's still out of reach:-)
So, what a 'good' embouchure does for a player is to allow them real-time control of how the reed behaves so that they can perform that trick moment by moment as they play.
I know some of y'all think that there are magic solutions -- as well as magic instruments, ligatures, reeds, or whatever, that will produce the ideal sound for you, and which sound will do it all for you -- but you have your heads in very dark places.
Notice that Evelyn says: "If I just simply let go and allow my hand, my arm, to be more of a support system, suddenly I have more dynamic with less effort. Much more. And I just feel, at last, one with the stick and one with the drum. And I'm doing far, far less."
Her hand, her arm, are 'more of a support system' -- which is what a good embouchure is. Good clarinet players allow the reed/ligature/mouthpiece/instrument system -- a GOOD reed/ligature/instrument/mouthpiece system, notice -- to vibrate freely, TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY PRODUCE THE REQUIRED MUSICAL RESULT.
Evelyn is doing 'far, far less', because she's using her hand and arm to MODULATE what the stick and drum do. (I bet she CHOOSES a GOOD stick and drum:-) If she needs a vibration that is less open, she uses her hand and arm to contain it.
As do good players use their embouchures, for a given reed/ligature/instrument/mouthpiece system.
And their diaphragms.
(Support, again, you notice:-)
Tony
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-01-13 01:08
" Because that isn't giving me enough of something that is so raw and so basic, and something that I can fully experience the journey of."
Perhaps Evelyn is more of a purist that I but is it not possible that one can take a "rawness" from another performer's creation. That inspiration is what we look for as performers. There may not be any magic mouthpieces but there are magical performances that are worthy of intense study. A part of that magic is tranfered to us.
We don't ignore the great ideas and and stick to the concept that we should be totally original. The jury is still out for me on Evelyn's ideas. I'm not sure how to listen any differently after watching and hearing her talk. I am for the most part deaf in one ear and have adapted to this throughout my career. How would you listen differently after watching her youtube presentation?
.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-01-13 10:05
The different listening, for me, comes with incorporating the listening that involves feeling vibrations (through the fingers, through the jaw, in the pit of your stomach etc), or the listening of any ambient environment in which I find myself (ala John Cage I imagine). I caught myself just the other day, post Evelyn's video, listening to.............. snow. It is quite liberating!!!
Although to respond to Tony's post, I feel that she is directing her comments to performers as the CREATORS or DIRECTORS of what's going on, such as soloists or conductors. Yes, as a member of a larger whole there is 'freedom' in being linked to 'the greater good.'
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-01-14 19:16
From my standpoint she is really dealing with a solo performer. The "ambient" sounds that Paul refers to I think would be a good thing to focus on while practicing. If we are totally immersed in what WE sound like and the feeling connected to it then it is a short step to not relating to others while we play. When it comes down to it music is about relating to other musicians and responding to them. Unfortunately we spend hours in a practice room adjusting reeds and fussing over how WE sound. Of course I don't advocate spending absolutely no time on YOU but I think the balance is off kilter regarding ME and MY playing vs the bigger picture, you and how you relate to the other players.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-01-14 22:27
I think this is a good point in that it brings us to a recognition of certain changes that are happening. I have always taken great pleasure in the interplay between musicians, whether brought about by a conductor, a leader in a combo or just the intuitive knowledge of one another in a jam. That is a given for just about anyone on this list. But almost exclusively these days my playing partner is a computer/myself. And it is strange to jam with yourself (learning to organise drum/percussion parts has been one of the most difficult things). In fact after spending some time doing this (playing drum, keys, bass, clarinet and whatever I can get my hands on) I sometimes think that no amount of planning, practicing and arranging will actually get over the fact that one is playing alone. I know people who do it well but the listening thing is the hardest and I think it is because I have already played what I am listening to, I know what is coming in a way that is deficient compared to listening to a band member, even though I know what they are going to play next. This technology has taken us into strange days and it directly impacts on listening.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-01-15 04:18
OF COURSE the idea is to listen to yourself in the context of listening to others.
Is this kindergarten?
Tony
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-01-15 05:13
I have something to add from personal experience.
Evelyn said in her talk:
>> And I said, "Well, how do you hear it?" [My teacher] said, "Well, I think I hear it through [my ears]." And I said, "Well, I think I do too -- but I also hear it through my hands, through my arms, cheekbones, my scalp, my tummy, my chest, my legs and so on.">>
I would not have understood this fully before 1982, when I took a 10-day course of Vipassana meditation.
Vipassana is a 'body' meditation, in the sense that it includes spending around 8 or 9 hours per day systematically going through your body 'looking at' the sensations on its surface. Each evening we listened to an hour or so of (recorded) discourse on the theory and practice of the discipline. Otherwise, we obeyed a vow of silence.
It was very hard work; especially what was called 'the hour of strong intention', during which we were invited -- though not required -- to sit perfectly still, and accept whatever sensations came. (There was a 'master' who sat immobile facing the group throughout all 9 hours each day on the platform in front of us -- as a kind of example, I suppose.)
Anyway, towards the end of this course I found that I could 'hear' sounds all over my body, as Evelyn describes above. I imagine that the discipline of concentrating awareness on bodily sensations for long periods of time had the effect of changing my threshold of perception of those sensations temporarily. So in the end, I was able to perceive even the very small effect of sound vibrations on my skin.
However, that ability evaporated when I returned to normal life, and failed to keep up the meditation.
Though Evelyn has dedicated her life to an enormous development and refinement of her abilities in this direction, it seems to me plausible that actually a rudimentary version of what she can do is available to us all, if we are willing to take the trouble to practise it.
And notice, what you experience in this way necessarily includes all the sounds made by others.
Tony
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-01-15 07:14
This is pretty interesting. I didn't know about her until now.
I teach ESL in a K-12 school for the hearing impaired; I will bring some information about her and tell the kids and teachers about her.
Just wondering, how did she lose her hearing? I could not find anything about it on wikipedia.
Post Edited (2011-01-15 07:16)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-01-15 09:00
I see.
There are some degenerative conditions in which a child might have normal or good hearing when they are young, but gradually lose their hearing. Usually the change stops in the teens or twenties, but by that time the result can be any range of hearing loss from slight to total deafness.
In a sense, they are lucky because they are able to learn how to speak and read lips, as she can, from a young age. Those that are born with poor hearing can have exceptional trouble learning to use their voice and read lips.
One of my students has this condition. As far as I have been told, the cause is not totally understood but it can run in families and there is no known treatment.
Not sure if this is her condition or not.
Post Edited (2011-01-15 09:08)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2011-01-15 15:34
I had an experience with hearing through the body at last January's International Saxophone Symposium (at George Mason University's Fairfax, Virginia Center for the Performing Arts). Unfortunately, I missed the Symposium this month, because my husband and I are in the middle of a squalor-reduction construction project, doing all the work ourselves, and I got so absorbed in it that I simply failed to pay attention to the calendar. But in 2010, I listened to some of the recitals in the large chorus rehearsal room, which has a hardwood floor and wooden risers.
Normally, the chorus practices from the risers, but for the Symposium recitals in that room, the musicians set up in front where the director normally stands, while the audience sits in lightweight chairs on the risers. I could feel the music through my chair (especially if I placed my hands very lightly around the sides of the seat with my fingers splayed on the bottom of the seat, barely touching it) but especially through my feet on the risers when I slipped off my shoes. It really is a form of hearing -- not just a percussion-like thud, but vibration that changes frequency quite noticibly with the pitch of the instruments and with the number of instruments playing at once.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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