 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-01-07 01:06
Someone recently suggested that I try the Vandoren BLackmasters. I am currently using the vandoren traditional 3 1/2, and sometimes #4 strength. Can anyone tell me what strength would be compereable with the Blackmaster reeds? THanks for any help.
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Author: Le9669
Date: 2011-01-07 02:58
in order to try the blackmaters, you'll need a german mouthpiece. the traditional reeds only work on non- german mouthpieces.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2011-01-07 03:30
Le9669 wrote:
> in order to try the blackmaters, you'll need a german
> mouthpiece. the traditional reeds only work on non- german
> mouthpieces.
That's not actually true. Although Black Masters are made for Austrian mouthpieces, they will work on many French-style mouthpieces. They're slightly narrower than the French-style reeds, but not excessively so.
I've even used White Masters (the German style), which are even narrower, on a French-style mouthpiece. They won't work on every French mouthpiece and take some fiddling with to use, but you can use them. According to previous posts, Richard Stoltzman used them for a time.
I haven't tried the Black Masters myself, personally, but I know that the White Masters run a tad hard. (although the narrowness of the reeds makes them especially responsive, despite the hardness--it's kind of difficult to describe it, but they have a very different feel from French reeds)
When I last played on Vandoren Traditionals I played on 3 1/2's. I bought a box of 3 1/2 White Masters and they seemed to work OK--a little bit hard, but manageable. I'd try buying a box of Black Masters in your normal French strength and see what happens. If they're too hard, you can always sand them down to something manageable.
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-01-07 09:14
A few players here in NZ have experimented using Blackmaster reeds on French (B flat) mouthpieces, and as far as i know abandoned the idea. There were some good results- but i believe most players experienced a sudden "collapse" of the reed after an initial period of success.
(this is not from my own experience- i am relating info 3rd hand)
As far as i remember- the problem was that the setup would play well, and the whole thing seemed very promising, but after a break in period the tip would lose it's "springiness" and the wings/ears of the reed would cave in- a result of the reed being slightly narrower than the tip rails.
That's just what was passed on to me, at any rate.
dn
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-01-07 10:02
The comparison is close, perhaps a half strength more maybe. But much like what has been said already, I feel the dimensions are best suited for their intended mouthpieces. Why cheat yourself of vibrating arear when this is not necessary?
Those I know who used the Black Masters did so for a bit more "edge." I think you'd be better off checking out the Rue Lepic 56s. These are cut for standard French mouthpieces and give the sort of results that the Black Master folks were originally looking for.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2011-01-07 11:11
I tried the Blackmasters on a whim and I liked them. I play a French mouthpiece, but the reeds fit well without any problems. The strength comparison is similar to the traditional Vandoren reeds. I have not had any of the issues previously mentioned...."suden collapse"
Ralph
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2011-01-07 14:24
>>Although Black Masters are made for Austrian mouthpieces, they will work on many French-style mouthpieces.>>
Black Masters and White Masters can also work well on antique mouthpieces. Many old mouthpieces have a shorter, thinner lay than modern mouthpieces. Conventional modern reeds need whittling to fit. I've also used these reeds on unusual mouthpieces for Eb sopranino clarinet and for a King Saxello soprano saxophone from the 1920s.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2011-01-07 14:28)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-01-07 16:24
Black masters are also a little shorter (tip to butt) than regular reeds. So it might look funny with your ligature. Seemed to work fine for me. I haven't tried the Rue Lepic 56 but I'm curious to try them.
My personal thoughts on most reeds is that all you need to do is have a well balanced reed and it'll sound fine. Brand is more or less irrelevant IMO.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Elifix
Date: 2011-01-07 17:14
I am using the Black Masters size 4 with a standard Vandoren Mouthpiece. Have yet to try a BM 3.5 (ordered but lost in postage services...)
I reckon a size 3.5 to size 4 of the Black masters would be good. I tried 5 but they were generally too hard to blow for me
They do fit on French mouthpiece (a bit off since they are smaller in size). I haven't experience any 'collapse' but perhaps donald could elaborate on them more? They do turn a bit 'spitty' sometimes.
White masters seems to be alot more harder than Black masters and they don't go well with standard Vandoren Mouthpieces. WM are even smaller then BM.
The sound will turn out very different from my own experience. If a French cut reed on a French instrument using a French mouthpiece has a 'ping-ing' quality, then swapping the reed to a German one will make it sound more Germanic in some sense.
56 reeds are good.
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2011-01-07 17:47
I have used Black Master reeds for the past fifteen years or so, maybe more. Oddly, I use White Master reeds on my A, I don't like the Black on my A for some reason.
I have tried every reed I can get my hands on and no matter what mouthpiece I have, I still like Black Masters best. Years ago I used a Bay piece (MOM) that I loved but I dropped it and broke the tip off. For the past ten years I have used a Morgan 6 but recently I fell in love with a Fobes piece (Cicero 12) and I play Black Master on all of them without a problem.
Yes, the reeds are smaller and you need to position them carefully because of the typically larger windows and make sure it covers correctly. Not a big problem but one to consider.
I would agree that my tone is edgier and brighter than my stand partner's tone (Oberlin grad) but we seem to mix very well playing duets. I have never had any sudden collapse while playing but I will tell you that I get just as many good ones out of the box of 10 as any other Vandoren reed. (3)
I have tried some reeds that Fobes is working on and they work very well with his mouthpieces, the Rico Reserve work well too and the consistency is much better than Vandoren. However, those three Vandorens that play have a tone, control and balls that I love and cannot find anywhere else. The strengths all seem to be similar, if you're using a 3.5 Vandoren try a Black Master 3.5, it will be close.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-01-07 18:31
Dear sbrodt54,
Did you just say your reeds "have balls?"
Hmmmm, are you the Governor of PA by any chance?
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2011-01-07 21:30
Paul,
Yep, I said it. Fast Eddie is my uncle though. I'm not in politics anymore; I decided to pursue a life of lesser crime with the mob.
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