 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-11-23 01:56
I searched "chirp" and found some good advice, but I still don't have my problem solved. Nothing seems to work.
When I play a series of 1/8th notes staccato, starting with first space F#, then going on up scale to G#, A, B, C and D, I get chirps, especially around the C and D.
I opened up a new box of Rico Grand Concert Selects (#3s) and literally every one in the box did this. I even tried a new V12, and the same results, too. I changed MPs...same results. Changed clarinets...same results.
Now I do not believe that it's the reeds near as much as my technique, so I tried it slower and faster with no improvement for either.
I can play this legato and do not get the chirping. Also I do have some old reeds that don't chirp during staccato.
So what's your best guess? I don't have a lesson until December 7th, so I'd appreciate any advice to try.
As I say, I just don't believe a whole box of reeds are to blame, but the mystery of why some older reeds play okay with staccato and the new ones don't gets me.
(Clarinets: R13 and Selmer Signet Special
MPs: 5RV Lyre and Vandy M13 Lyre)
CarlT
Post Edited (2010-11-23 01:58)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-11-23 04:58
I had the chirping problem a few years back. I think the thread I started was misspelled: chrip.
It turned out to be a mouthpiece problem. Try sticking in another to see if you get an instant change of character.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Reedirect
Date: 2010-11-23 07:42
Hi Carl:
You did change the mouthpiece. Didn't you?
A very mysterious problem, indeed. Did you try different reed strengths? That's what's left, IMHO.
Best
Jo
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-11-23 10:48
What makes this difficult is that the chirps are happening on throat tones. Chirps on C and D might suggest a small leak under a pad - probably up near the top of the instrument. Throat notes don't squeak or chirp easily - there aren't many holes that need to be closed and any that are would cause problems above C5-D5 (just above the break).
Probably the reeds aren't the explanation, but if you have other reeds that don't chirp, it would be worth trying to figure out what's different about those and maybe breaking out another new box to see what happens. Chirps can be caused by a spot along the tip that's really different from the rest - a hard fiber going all the way up to the edge or a very soft spot between harder fibers, anything that can encourage the reed to vibrate in partials instead of all together.
I had a very bad experience with chirping as a student. It wasn't where you're getting yours. It generally happened on initial attacks in the low chalumeau and was only on the first note of an articulated passage, not subsequent ones. Do your the chirps happen on repeated notes or just the first "attack?" Do they continue down below throat F-sharp or are the lower notes OK?
In my case the problem, whatever started it, was fueled by the tension that trying to avoid the chirps introduced to my embouchure. I ended up contorting so much to avoid the chirps that I made them worse. My solution was to switch for a couple of weeks to double lip. That helped reset my embouchure around the reed and restored the flexibility I had lost in reacting to the chirps.
Good luck. Persistent chirps can be frustrating. Maybe a few more details would suggest other possibilities.
Karl
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2010-11-23 12:13
Have you tried checking the placement of the reed on the mouthpiece? Is the tip even with or above or below the tip of the mouthpiece? What generally works for you? How about shifting it slightly to the left or the right? I went through a brief chirping period a while back. It arrived myseriously and disappeared after a few weeks and I never quite figured out what the problem was.
Post Edited (2010-11-23 12:14)
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2010-11-23 16:51
weberfan has a good point. A very small misplacement of the reed can cause a huge change in response. Generally, the tips of the mouthpiece and reed should be even, not one above the other. Also, check the placement of your tongue on the reed, and be sure it's consistent. Tip of the tongue to the tip of the reed. I usually feel both the mouthpiece and the reed with the tip of my tongue when I articulate, that's what gives the best response for me. good luck. Also, check that the ligature is working properly, and not bent.
Lori
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-11-23 18:15
My best guess, and that's what it is without seeing and hearing you. You react more comfortably to the old reeds for some reason so you tongue differently without realizing it. So my guess is that it's your tongue position. Perhaps your tongue is to high in the front or back causing an air blockage every time your tongue moves. You could placing the tongue on one side of the reed or another or tonguing to close to the tip causing it to chirp at the time you stroke it or you could be missing the tip of the reed and actually tonguing over the tip. Experiment with the placement of the tip and back of your tongue when you actually stroke the reed. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-11-23 23:25
Well, I believe that Weberfan and Claritoot26 came closest to helping me solve my chirping problem.
I was told from the beginning to always place the tip of the reed on the mp so that just a sliver of the tip of the mp was visible...in other words place the reed just shy of the tip of the mp.
So just to satisfy myself, I placed the tip of the reed dead even with the tip of the mp, and in most cases (of all the reeds I had previously had "chirp") that alone took care of the chirps.
There were 3 or 4 reeds, however, that still chirped no matter what, so I held them up to a strong light, and each had a rather weak looking corner (and also using the thumb nail, felt very weak relatively speaking)...for some reason all to the right hand side. I was able to get a couple of these to sound without chirps by placing the reed just a bit off center toward the left.
I'm not saying "problem totally solved" just yet, but I do know that placement of the reeds flush with the tip of the mp (for the majority of the reeds checked) certainly made a difference in chirping while playing staccato notes.
I also believe that the chirping will further subside with better tonguing technique (thanks, Mr. Palanker), so I'll continue to work on that aspect.
CarlT
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-11-24 00:54
As I often do, I agree with Ed p about checking tonguing technique. You mention repositioning the reeds higher solved some issues. It is possible that the tip of the reeds are a little soft which can sometimes lead to this issue. At times a hair more stiffness is needed. You might try clipping the slightest bit off as well as see what the results are.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-11-25 18:08
I myself have alway preached, and practice, placing the reed even with the tip of the mouthpiece. The problem is that many people have the clarinet at a slight angle down when placing the reed on or slightly higher than their direct eye sight so they think the reed is even but in fact it is a bit low or high depending on how straight, or not, they are looking at it. Look at the mouthpiece straight on to get the reed on perfectly. A little high will make the reed play more resistant, slightly too low will make the reed play soft, and maybe chirp. I see this all the time with my students. They come in and complain about their reed so I put it back on the mouthpiece straight and surprise, it plays better. ESP
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Author: timg
Date: 2010-11-26 14:24
When playing staccato, it's easy to involuntarily relax the air support in between notes. The attack of the next note is then mushy, or starts with a squeak. Does that resemble your experience? If so, here's an exercise I found helpful:
Play an easy note, such as no-fingers G, and practise gently touching the tip of the reed. With the tongue on the reed, keep the note sounding. Gradually accelerate the tonguing action, and move to higher notes. Eventually you'll get used to the feeling of air-support being a continuous action, independent of any articulation.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-11-26 15:21
The one time I had a reproducible chirp when tonguing was when I was using reeds that were too narrow for the mouthpiece (White Master reeds with an Eddie Daniels ED1 mpc.) Switching back to French-size reeds fixed the problem.
So based on my experience, I would look at reed placement or dimensions/shape as a likely culprit, too.
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Author: TianL
Date: 2010-11-29 15:33
my suggestion would be play the legato (where there is no chirp), and then play staccato. Feel carefully what the differences there are between the two cases. For example, what is your tongue doing for the staccato? it is supposed to be just like the legato and except the tip of the tongue leaves the reed just a mm and also make sure when the tongue re-touches the reed, it does it lightly.
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2010-11-29 16:02
Does the chrip happen if you play the same pitches but 16th notes instead of 8th notes?
I would also make sure that there is no movement in your embouchure when playing staccato. It is very common to try and help staccato playing by adding "sympathetic" movements in your embouchure instead of trusting solid air support and good tongue technique. Practice in front of a mirror and check to see if you have any moving parts in your embouchure or a slight resetting of your embouchure between pitches.
It could also be the reeds you are using. I would try and clip the tips a little bit and move the reed towards the right side of the mouthpiece a hair to compensate for the soft right tips you noticed.
Good luck
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-12-01 13:24
I've had chirping, I've been able to improve the situation by being more precise in reed placement on the mp. Replacing the mp with one labelled identically from the same maker (Vd B45) fixed the problem. Using the original mp brings the chirp back, so that seems to be the problem. I can't see any difference between the 2 mp's.
Tony F.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2010-12-22 15:57
Ridenour's ATG system for reeds is worth a read, in my opinion. The book and his CD are very educational regarding reed balancing.
I had a similar chirping experience a couple of years ago. Turned out the table on my mouthpiece had become warped. Since the MP was old anyway, I replaced it with a superior MP (for me) and the problem was corrected.
Post Edited (2010-12-22 15:57)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-12-23 14:22
One of the main causes of chirps is the mouthpiece.
Most mass produced mouthpieces have this problem and most of us have learned to play in a way that avoids this problem. We are just swerving around the pothole, not fixing the road.
If you clip the reed just a bit to make the tip thicker, this can greatly reduce the problem, also.
[Disclaimer- I make mouthpieces]
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-12-23 19:14
Though it could be the mouthpiece I've never come across one that chirped so unless yours has a chip or scratch I'd rule that out. It's likely that when you tongue you press on one side of the reed to much without realizing it or you raise your tongue too high in the front or the back of your mouth causing a problem with the air passing through evenly. It is also possible that you choke the air off in your throat when your tongue moves onto the reed. There is no simply answer without seeing and hearing you play, sorry. ESP
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