 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: klook
Date: 2010-11-13 23:55
Okay, I recently just finished up repadding an old Buffet C clarinet I came across.
It dates to 1895, has Albert keywork w/ two rings on the bottom joint and no rollers.
It was not marked high or low pitch.
The barrel that came with the clarinet was not original.
I almost sold this to a guy who really wanted it, but, he was sure it was a high pitch clarinet and backed out. The measurements didn't add up to him.
Now, at that point I hadn't had a chance to really mess with playing the clarinet with a tuner.
I've now spent a considerable amount of time playing this clarinet in front of my Korg tuner set to A=440. With the unknown barrel of 63mm this clarinet plays in tune all the way up to the altissimo register. The upper end of the chalmeau register requires venting with the side keys, especially the F and F#, but its no big deal.
It doesn't do as well in the altissimo range, but I'm sure I could figure out better fingerings for that.
So, my question is, if this was really a High pitch clarinet, and I was using the wrong barrel to try to get it to A=440, wouldn't the intonation be all screwy? I mean I'm not influencing the notes by lipping very much, not more than I would with any other clarinet on certain notes.
The guy I talked to claims he checked with a buddy of his who had 3 old Buffet C clarinets, and that mine was an inch or so too short (measured from bell to top section, not including the tenon), and that the replacement barrel was probably used just to make it play close to A=440, but it wouldn't play very well.
He's a super knowledgeable guy so I don't doubt his info, but something is awry here, right?
Oh, mine measures 17.5" from bell to top joint without including the tenon.
klook
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-11-14 01:46
Bell lengths can vary on Buffet Ebs so maybe the same applies to C clarinets - some same pitch Ebs may have longer bells than others depending on what was thought best at the time (the old 'reserve the right to change specification at any time' blurb). In Anthony Baines' book there's a photo of a Buffet Eb (Boehm system) with what looks like a D clarinet bell - definitely a much taller bell than the one my Buffet Eb has and what other Buffet Ebs I've seen have.
The best measurement to determine pitch is the body length (minus barrel and bell) from end to end as both bells and barrels will vary somewhat in length. The body length should be pretty much the same as a Boehm system Buffet Eb of the same pitch. Tenons shouldn't vary too much in length - maybe by 1mm at the most if they are.
On Albert/simple systems without any LH rings, the F and F# are best played with the side F/C key open for both. The rings for LH1 and 2 fitted to some simple/Alberts did away with having to open the side F/C key for the F#, but remained closed for high C when played as oxo|xxx which is a better note than with the side key fingering (but it can be used for the high B-C trill). German and Oehler systems have these rings fitted for the same reason (and the speaker key lowers them too).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-11-14 11:29)
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2010-11-14 22:04
Buffet C Low Pitch Albert clarinets are about 20 1/2 inches without the mouthpieces; ie barrel, upper joint, lower joint, bell. I have several, both HP and LP. The 4 low pitch are 20 1/4, 20 1/2, 20 1/2, and 20 7/8, inches long without mouthpieces respectively. In my experience, while it's possible to put a longer barrel on a C HP to make it play LP (A=440), the results are not that good, and you also have to pull the two joints apart a lot as well. I have two HP C Buffets, and I just keep them for the fun of having them, but I don't play them at performances because it's just not worth it. By the way, I might mention that I perform with the C LP clarinets more than 99% of the time. I rarely use an A and even more rarely a Bb. And I only play Albert system by the way.
Good luck,
John
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2010-11-15 13:16
Its possible that your C was actually built to A=435 which was the common french pitch (le diapason normal) at the time the horn was made. Maybe the original barrel was just a little longer by a mm or 2. High Pitch used in Britain around that time was A=452. Most horns of this age meant for the british market were stamped "HP". If your clarinet was set to A=452 then using a different barrel to bring it close to 440 would probably have a serious effect on intonation.
Since you don't seem to have remarked this I'm inclined to think your horn is A=435 brought to A=440 by using a slightly shorter barrel. The result, as they say, is probably "good enough for jazz".
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Author: klook
Date: 2010-11-15 17:47
Well I hadn't thought of the A=435 aspect.
My clarinet measures, without the barrel OR the bell, just the body minus the tenons, 14". Can I get any other measurements to compare?
I've now spent a bit of time with the clarinet and tuner, it plays just fine at A=440. I'll have to spend alot more time w/ the altissimo register but thats par for the course I believe.
I have to say though, this is one of the nicest sounding instruments I've ever heard!!
klook
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Author: klook
Date: 2010-11-16 21:57
Okay, just an update.
After spending time with various mouthpieces and the 63mm barrel this clarinet plays at A=440 pretty darn well except for the throat G#, A, Bb.
The Bb I can pull off in tune with the long side key, its in tune but way stuffy.
The G# and A are both way flat. Can't lip 'em up to get them in tune.
I guess I'll have to experiment with a shorter barrel, but then my other notes will be off.
klook
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2010-11-16 23:01
Yep! Been there, done that also. I have two Bb HP Buffet clarinets which I keep because they were each given to me by old timers, so... sentimental value you know. And two C HP Buffets, the most recent I purchased 3 or 4 months ago. I have also tried all the tricks, BUT, they are sweet playing but do not make good Low Pitch instruments. Tune them here, they're out of tune there, etc..
As for value, the C's are not in demand, but the Bb's and A's are. My last purchase, a C High Pitch, I knew was a high pitch clarinet. The seller wanted $300 for it, but sold it to me for $250. It plays well, it's in perfect shape (no cracks, all original, played right out of the box) and I'm happy with it, but I don't perform with it. I would estimate the value of a C Buffet HP, depending on condition as being between $200 and $350, but the high end is if all parts are original, no cracks, or repaired cracks, and playable "out of the box." If you play Boehm, you can find good ones, and some of our list mates here have commented on the various ones that are available. I think Boehm players are lucky, because I remember when I started playing clarinet, around 1962, the man who sold me my Albert C, played Boehm C, and at that time he told me that it was impossible to find C Boehm clarinets, and that he was fortunate that he had a played a Boehm C.
Good luck to you. I'd just sell it and get a Boehm.
John
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Author: klook
Date: 2010-11-17 00:19
Ah! I don't think I'd sell it. I repair clarinets on the side so I have lots of Boehms going through my hands. I really like some of them!
But, for me, I like Albert clarinets. I have a few other HP ones that I love to play too. I can't play in a modern ensemble, but then again, I never do anyway, so what do I care!
klook
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