 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Johnny S
Date: 2010-11-09 19:19
Hi all,
I've seen a couple of posts here regarding the Couesnon clarinets and I have not given it alot of thought as to when they where produced, since now that is.
I've done the usual searches and have not come up with anything specific.
There has been some progress in regards to the Conservatorie model (real Sherlock Holmes of you guys btw) in this forum.
The thing is ... that model is not mentioned in Langwill.
This is what I got :
SO: study models.
CGO: top models.
BO: first choice.
GMN: Change the tone by sliding; C / Bb. or F / Eb.
BN: Professional
HN: high-end professional.
Monopoly: "Hors Classe" (loosely traslated - A class of its own)
My Couesnon Monopol got that pinky roller and extra key on upper joint.
Serial 46xx
I'm going to strip her down pretty soon, hopefully there will be a 2 digit number hidden under the keys indicating production year.
Can anyone confirm this?
Best regards,
/J
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-09 19:31
The model most of us really like (saxophones as well) was labeled "Monopole Conservatoires".
I've personally seen the Monopole Conservatoires clarinet model in four versions: (a) standard 5-ring Boehm; (b) 6-ring Boehm (the extra ring being fixed to the other two, doesn't move independently); (c) standard Boehm but with one r.h. pinky spatula roller; and (d) standard Boehm with two r.h. pinky spatula rollers. Perhaps some of the other posters here have seen (or own) additional variations?
I don't know what you mean by those two- or three-letter markings (SO, CGO, etc.).
I wasn't aware that there was a model year code anywhere on these clarinets, I hope you're right! On some clarinets I've worked on, there are a few digits stamped onto the hidden underside of some key, or sometimes engraved in the wood body in a normally-hidden location, where the digits seemed to be either just a "die" code for the die used to stamp/forge the key, or in other cases the last two digits of the individual instrument's serial number (for added theft protection, presumably).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-11-09 20:12
Another keywork option on Couesnon Monopoles was the throat G-A trill key for RH1 - it's like the overlapping Bb touch for RH1 found on flutes, but opens the throat A key (as opposed to closing the pad cup linked to LH2).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-10 18:08
My Couesnon Monopole Conservatoires model is like option "c" that David lists: standard Boehm, one RH pinkie roller. Serial # 28249 would date it c. 1959. It needs a complete repad so isn't playable yet.
Sadly, though it has its original mouthpiece, it has been maimed beyond usability: some lunatic refaced it to the point where a 1/4" is gone from the tip. It barely plays at all, and what sound it makes is about 1/4-tone sharp. Time for a new mouthpiece...!
Klarnetisto
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Author: clarinet60
Date: 2010-11-10 18:52
Too bad about the mouthpiece. I have a Couesnon N3 mouthpiece that is just spectacular...I've been trying to find another as a back up for some time now with no luck. If anyone comes across one that they don't want, pls let me know!
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Author: Johnny S
Date: 2010-11-10 21:57
David - The 2 & 3 letter combination is, according to Langwill, other makes of various class/quality. My interpretation is that it should be stamped in the same location as "Monopole", although I have never seen any of these markings/labels.
It should be fairly simple to determine if the numbers you found are color codes. That is, if we Couesnon owners report our findings here.
Before 1955 the color code should be of the RAL standard (or common abbreviation by removing the zeros).
Example: Black brown RAL8022 (822)
If there are letters stamped that could be an indication of color chart.
After 1955 (depending on how "progress" where handled on the factory) the standard sadly changed numerous times thanks to British Standards Institution (or BSI) among others. But since it's a French brand, I'm willing to bet that British standards weren't all that welcomed. But I digress.
The stamping of production year is also mentioned in Langwill, but no reference is made to the almost trademark "pineapple" as seen on their other products. That would have made things a little more easier.
You also mentioned that on one occasion the "hidden" number matched a part of the serial number. It's not uncommon to incorporate the production year in the serial number, any chance of you remembering the number?
A fellow Couesnon enthusiast questions the validity of the serial number to be truly sequential. He argued: the possibility to produce that amount of pieces since at most Couesnon employed around 200 people for all their production lines. Also that there alot of older/beaten up clarinets with a serial beginning on 0xxxx, any numerical value should not have an initial 0 (except those followed by a comma).
Valid points, but it could be argued that the presence of an initial 0 is a result of a fixed least set of numbers in the machine ... and so on.
Any way, I hope Monopole owners post their findings ...
And I'll do the same as soon as I get some free time to strip her down (probably not sooner then next week though).
Regards,
/J
Post Edited (2010-11-10 21:59)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-11 01:56
Search on this BB, Johnny -- a few years ago there was an extensive thread on Couesnon Monopole clarinets in which many of us posted the serial numbers and estimated production dates of our instruments.
Been there, done that!
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Author: Johnny S
Date: 2010-11-18 19:26
Sorry for the delay.
Klarnetisto - Interesting, we probably have the same model. One of my peeves with mine is that the barrel have been shortened. And since it does not conform to standards (diameter wise) it's a hassle to find a replacement. If yours requires more work, or simply is unplayable, I'm more then interested in your barrel. Sorry to hear about the mouthpiece though.
If you are taking off the keywork (specially upper joint) please note the hidden digits ... and, of course, post it here ;-)
David - Believe me, I can appreciate the work done and time invested.
But the threads I found is more about date of purchase rather then production. Although, I might have missed something?
:-)
As promised, here is a photo of the digits on mine (it's "55").
If Klarnetisto comes up with the same number we can rule that out as a probable production year, since the serials are 23267 apart.
Also, I messed up my serialnumber digits in my first post. It's 4982.
Best regards,
/J
Post Edited (2010-11-18 19:52)
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