 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ez
Date: 2010-11-07 23:49
How do I know if any of my clarinets (a dozen of them) has a polycylindrical bore? What special tools do I need to measure them? Thanks
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Just a keen (adult) amateur
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2010-11-08 00:41
you can use standard spring loaded T bore gauges or more complex gun bore gauges.
The standard T gauges are by far cheaper (such as $30 +/-) but if you plan on measuring many, many clarinets then the gun bore gauges are by far quicker and easier to use. The more complex ones when hooked to a computer will automatically chart depth and bore diameter as you slide it in/out
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-11-08 10:19
The bore measurement manufactures stipulate in their catalogues is taken from the middle tenon.
For example, an instrument with a 14.6mm bore means the longest section of the narrowest diameter of the bore is 14.6mm - the best and most accessable place to measure that diameter is either at or just above the middle tenon.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-11-08 15:47
I hope that you will make a set of comprehensive measurements along the bores of several clarinets --including different instruments of the same make and model.
My impression is that a poly cylindrical bore consists of a series of bore diameter increases as you go down the bore from mouthpiece to bell. These are supposedly responses to the effects of open tone holes that foul up the theoretical beauty of a constant diameter cylindrical bore.
Please, make your measurements along at least two planes that pass through the centerline of the bore. I would like to know how round a mature clarinet's bore actually is. Does it become elliptical with the major axis perpendicular to the growth rings? Is ovalization a contributor to a wooden instrument's being "blown out"?
A lot of work to do here, and thanks in advance.
Bob Phillips
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2010-11-08 16:26
Bob,
on a tapered upper joint it is normally larger at the top than the bottom.
on the lower joint it's the opposite.
on a german bore it is cylindrical in the upper joint and most of the lower joint until it just gets to the bell then it starts it's flare.
here's an old list that I have of bores - mostly just the lower bore of the upper joint but some both the top and bottom.
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clbore.htm#bore
I then started using a gauging tool to measure the entire length of the bores to compare multiple vintage R13s and such.
as an graph example, Stephen Fox has done some analysis with graphs shown here
http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/BenclartI.html
here's more info. with a representation of the decreasing 3 cylinder design of the upper joint of the R13
<www.woodwindcourse.co.uk/user/image/clarinet_bore_design.doc>
as to your blown out question. I had a R13 which was arguably blown out. Dried up wood and ovalized bore. horrible player. Went through a complete restoration including reoiling and it came back to shape and in the end was very nice and compared quite equally to my other 1955 R13. But then i didn't do it as an experiment of blown out or anything.
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
Post Edited (2010-11-08 16:26)
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Author: ez
Date: 2010-11-08 17:14
Here are some of my collections-
Evette & Schaeffer (ser.31xx)
Noblet ND (ser. 77xx)
Yamaha YCL32
Edgware , B&H
Moennig Bros Artist Model
Jan Williams NY
Selmer Signet (without 100, special or Soloist)
Kohlerts Kraslice
I wouldn't be surprised if NONE of them have a polycylindrical bore.
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Just a keen (adult) amateur
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2010-11-08 17:51
Was the E&S a K series I assume ? If so, it dates to 1952ish and is not. I can't recall the dimensions of the K125xxx that i recall seeing.
As to the Noblet, and Edgware, those are probably cylindrical upper joints
Signet is tapered
I've never measured a Yamaha 32 but the 34s are tapered
the rest I have no idea.
someone may have more accurate info than me though ....
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-11-08 18:38
I can't believe that a slight ovality of the bore, which in practice is rarely more than a few thou', would constitute "blown out" (if you actually believe that concept) or have any noticeable effect on the tone.
Having heard many years ago the "logical bassoon" which has a SQUARE cross sectional bore played by both William Waterhouse, one of UK's leading players now sadly demised and also live in duet with a conventional shaped bassoon it was amazing how virtually indistinguishable the sound quality was between those instruments.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2010-11-10 22:41
I wouldn't spend money on gages to find out if a clarinet has a polycylindrical bore. I can "spy" one just by looking through the bore at a light. Secondly, just ask. There are people on the board and one of them probably has or has had a clarinet of the make in question.
John B
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