 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sally
Date: 2010-11-05 15:10
Hello,
Just wondering how people get around bar 54 (5 bars after C in my score) in the Pastoral in the Crusell concerto in F minor.
It has Eb, C and then up to an Ab - as I don't have a left hand Eb I get stuck needing to play both the C and Ab with the LH little finger.
Any clever tricks?!
Thanks
Sally
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-11-05 15:30
Sorry, don't know the piece.
But once you have hit the left hand C, do you have time to cover the C with the R little finger, releasing the L little finger to get to the Ab?
Or of course slide the Eb to C with the right hand
Or if it is a quick Ab, perhaps TRxxo|xxo is enough to get you by as an alternative.
Chris
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-11-05 16:27
This is easy Sally, you can try what Chris suggested above of "fake" the Ab. The way to do this is with this fingering:
XXO/XXO
This is how Crusell may have played it on his instrument and is a bona fide fingering in classical instruments. It's very study on modern instruments so you'll need to not bite and support.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-11-05 20:29
Sally,
The tempo for the Pastorale should be about eighth note = 112. This should give you ample time to use Chris' first suggested solution, if you prefer -- i.e, finger the C initially with the left hand but immediately switch to the right. Think of the note as two tied sixteenths (not tongued) where you play the first with your left hand and the second with your right, then play the Ab with the normal fingering.
I would recommend you give both solutions a try then choose the one that gives you the best intonation and most consistent timbre on your instrument.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-11-05 22:20
The xxo xxo fingering can be very useful but a lot depends on your specific clarinet.
On my Buffets (R13 and S1) and most others I have tried it is very weak and stuffy.
On my LL Leblancs it is crystal clear.
On my B&H 926s not as good as Leblanc but better than Buffet.
The quick flip between LH/RH C is good option however most German system players are niffty at the C/Eb slide and I use it frequently on Boehm.
Get used to them all, one or other will always come in handy one day.
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Author: awm34
Date: 2010-11-05 22:50
My original teacher called the xxo xxo fingering "emergency only."
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-11-05 23:32
A little Nose Oil makes it easy to slide your right little finger from Eb to C.
That is, rub your little finger along the line where the right side of your nose meets your face, and then rub it on the Eb key.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-11-06 12:04
Here is good example of something to practice to test out your little fingers!
Chris
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2010-11-06 13:23
Since you're playing echoton there anyway, 'weak and stuffy' is almost an advantage.
I'm always struck when people say 'a fingering' is something like 'weak and stuffy'.
It's a way of putting the matter that gives the impression that what ELSE they do, apart from 'finger', doesn't come into it:-)
Tony
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-11-06 13:28
That alternate fingering for the Ab usually has a funky tone quality and is usually only used for a "fast" passage. I'd suggest using the fingering already suggested above, that is sliding the Eb to the C, it's not really that difficult and you will have a good tone on the Ab that way. That's what most of us do in that case. We've been using that "slide" in the 8th variation in the orchestra in the Brahms - Theme and Variations on a Theme of Haydn piece. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-11-06 14:00
"A little Nose Oil makes it easy to slide your right little finger from Eb to C."
True but IMO it should only be used in cases of necessity because it can also lead to unwanted slides. The passage in the Crusell is slow enough that it isn't necessary to slide at all.
"My original teacher called the xxo xxo fingering 'emergency only.'"
On most clarinets, with the exceptions (that immediately come to mind) of Bb4, Eb6 and G#6 and perhaps occasionally B4 and C5, the "standard" fingerings give the best intonation and most useful timbre. That's why they are the standard fingerings. (Note that many clarinetists would argue that the fingering usually identified as "standard" for Eb6 really shouldn't be.) In that sense (other than where the above exceptions are involved), one can make a case that any alternate fingering is "emergency only."
How stuffy or out-of-tune the note resulting from an alternate fingering will be can vary from clarinet to clarinet and some alternate fingerings generally give better notes than others (e.g., on my R13
T xoo oxo
gives a slightly "better" Eb4 than
T xoo xoo.
Rather than say a fingering is for "emergency only," I think it makes more sense to say that, on a particular clarinet, a particular fingering may only be useful in very rapid passages where the note goes by so fast its timbre and faulty intonation won't be apparent or in special contexts where the resulting note's "flaw" is desired.
Ab = TR xxo xxo
is a good example of this. Norman observes that the fingering does not work very well on his R13 and S1 but works quite well on his LLs. The logical conclusion would be that he might use the fingering differently depending on which clarinet he is playing. On my front line R13 Bb, the fingering produces a note that is very slightly stuffy but also (according to my tuner) very slightly better in tune. So, in the passage in question, I have to make a decision. I play the passage using the "C shift" and standard Ab fingering. Someone else (Peter C, for instance) might prefer the alternate fingering solution.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: RJShaw0
Date: 2010-11-07 03:11
I just do what Ed says and slide the Eb, as that's what I used to do, and you're playing slow enough to be able to do it easily.
RJS
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Author: Sally
Date: 2010-11-08 19:02
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I have tried all your suggestions and I think I'll go with changing the C fingering during the beat - the xxo-xxo fingering sounds very differently on my clarinet and really sticks out. As the Ab is very prominent I am going to go for the best tone I can get, which comes from the "standard" fingering. I don't seem to be very good at slides, not enough control! (shall have to practice!).
I really love the Crusell concerto, I have played his duets many times but I think the concerto is a bit overlooked - I'm going to use it for my ABRSM Diploma so help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Sally
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2010-11-08 21:56
Sally wrote:
>> Thanks for all the advice everyone. I have tried all your suggestions and I think I'll go with changing the C fingering during the beat - the xxo-xxo fingering sounds very differently on my clarinet and really sticks out.>>
That's fine -- of course it should match what the other notes sound like, and if that's what you need to do in order to make the effect, then do it.
BTW, I suppose you mean that the alternative fingering sticks IN, rather than sticking OUT:-)
>> As the Ab is very prominent I am going to go for the best tone I can get, which comes from the "standard" fingering.>>
I have an observation to make about that: because you're playing AS QUIETLY AS YOU CAN, quality of tone is not such a crucial issue here -- that's what I meant by what I wrote in a previous post, when the 'fake' fingering was being discussed.
Of course the tone needs to be clean (no fizz or breathiness) -- but the wisp of sound that's required can be almost unrecognisable as belonging to any particular instrument. The clarinet is very good at playing very quietly, and Crusell was undoubtedly well aware of the fact, being a virtuoso himself. I imagine it was a special effect that he knew about to begin with, and then worked quite hard on.
The result is particularly striking in a live performance, because when it's well done the audience has to strain to hear it, especially in a largish hall.
A wrinkle that you might not know about is that control of the passage is considerably eased by opening the register key only very slightly. (In fact, I believe that the register key on period clarinets is set rather 'proud' particularly in order to facilitate the use of a variety of openings of the key.) Doing so helps the pitch (there is a tendency to sharpness at very low dynamics) and minimises the likelihood of the upper notes 'grunting' -- ie, sounding the fundamental of the tube plus register key rather than the first partial. You don't want to be worrying about that; and the good news is that you needn't:-)
I really encourage you to make a special effort for these ppp echo effects, whatever any of the 'experts' here says. It's the raison d'etre of the whole section, dramatically.
>>I don't seem to be very good at slides, not enough control! (shall have to practice!).>>
Interestingly, on the period instrument the slide is obligatory between these two notes, because C and Eb are produced by the same RH little finger; the Ab can therefore anyway be played with the normal fingering, using the key that Crusell undoubtedly had.
Tony
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