 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-11-04 02:04
I'm wondering if anyone is playing or has played the new style "Vintage," Buffet clarinets? Are the really like the old '60's vintage as far as sound? Hows the sound, the intonation, things like that? Thanks in advance, Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-11-04 02:05)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-11-04 02:20
How does the sound compare to the newer R13's? Thanks Gary for responding so fast!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-11-04 13:04
When I tried a Vintage, I flashed back to my first R13, #64907 made in 1960, which was ruined by a famous but incompetent repairman. It had the same response and beauty of tone, along with the tuning problems and the fact that it didn't automatically sound good. You had to form a mental picture of which sound you wanted and learn to play it that way. In return, it let you make many good tones, rather than just one. When you're in top shape, the instrument feels like an extension of your body.
I now play R13s made in the early 1970s (and set up by Kalmen Opperman). They have more power than instruments from the 60s, along with better intonation and a fine basic sound. You need to work harder to get the "part of my body" feel, but they're a bit easier to play.
I've tried contemporary R13s and R13 Prestiges, which felt pretty much like those from the 70s.
Ken Shaw
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2010-11-04 15:56
I'll double what Ken said about the Vintage. I played a few Vintage models against my 1955 R13, both set up exactly the same. The Vintage had less resistance but had the same tonal characteristics of my 1955 R13 except with nicer keywork.
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Rondino
Date: 2010-11-04 17:08
I own both a five-year-old R13 Vintage and a 1965 R13. To my (amateurish) ear, the Vintage has significantly more power and ability to project, almost to the point of brashness in comparison. Its tone is attractive throughout, but doesn't quite match the sweetness and refinement of the older R13's mid-clarion range.
While I happily used crystal mouthpieces on the 1965 instrument for years, I have acquired one of Dr. Segal's cocobolo barrels and a Mike Lomax cocobolo mouthpiece to warm up and mellow the sound of the Vintage.
The new instrument has sturdier keywork in comparison to the 1965 R13 (at least after 45 years of use).
Overall, I prefer the new Vintage but occasionally revert to the original R13.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2010-11-04 17:55
Hello! I have a Vintage clarinet that I purchased new two years ago. I just love it. It is exactly the same as my 1972 model, except it plays better! Right now I am back to the 1972 model because the new one needs a little work, very little. It was so new, they were unpacking it when I walked into the store. What a thrill that was.
Carol Dutcher
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-11-04 18:39
Thanks everyone for the updates! I have a chance to test one today, along with about 10 "A" R13's.
I'll write more after I test them.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-04 18:51
Just as I prefer to drive actual 'vintage' cars (>30 years old, in my case) rather than 'retro-vintage' cars like the New Beetle and New Mini, I'd rather (and do) play actual vintage clarinets and saxes (most of my mine are between 50 and 100 years old) rather than some modern manufacturer's simulation of an older instrument.
My "Grumpy Rant of the Day" (GRoD) --- please feel free to ignore this post.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-11-05 01:49
OK, I'm back from RDG here in Los Angeles. They only had 1 Vintage to test. I really enjoyed playing it. I spent about 15 minutes playing the horn. My only complaint were the 12's. Sadly the 12th's were too far apart in intonation to have the horn adjusted, even with trying several barrels. The instrument comes with 2 barrels, they didn't help, tried other barrels I have and I wasn't able to get close. I am not saying these Vintage horns don't play. For example, today I tried 7 out of 10 R13 A clarinets, before finding a good R13. The sound quality of this Vintage A clarinet was very much like the 60's and 70's horns.
If they had more Vintage horns, perhaps I would have found something really good.
I settled for a nickel plated R13. The sound was different then the Vintage horn, but not by much. I actually preferred the Vintage, again it was close.
The R13 I chose had really nice 12ths. Actually amazingly in tune. I felt the sound was bigger than my Bb from the 70's as well as the Vintage. You can really put a lot of force through the horn without fearing that the pitch may go flat.
It was a very nice experience playing all of these horns. Feel free in emailing me if anyone has questions.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-11-05 02:17)
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2010-11-08 16:36
I've used a R13 vintage for 3,4 years now...it seems superior to me in every way. I also play a Yamaha CSG with the infamous Hamilton gold plated keys.
I have a pretty good characteristic clarinet tone with both of them...though after a couple of Margaritas my tone seems, to me, quite gorgeous. The Yamaha has a sound vaguely similar to the German clarinet tone.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-11-08 16:54
David -
The guy was Murray Snyder. In 1964, when I was young and even more foolish, I took the horn to him, on a strong recommendation, for an overhaul. He stuck a bore gauge down the top of the upper joint and told me "the bore has collapsed." So like a fool I said "OK."
He promised the work would be done in 4 weeks. I started calling him after 6 weeks, but he kept it for 3 months, and I missed an important audition, which I had to play on an inferior borrowed clarinet. When I finally demanded the clarinet back, telling him I had missed the audition, he replied "So now you'll appreciate it even more when you get it back.
If I had only sent it to Moennig!
Ken Shaw
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2010-11-08 17:56
Geezer - so, you are basically saying to improve one's tone one should not buy new equipment or take lessons, etc but just to drink Margaritas (or some other appropriate liquid) ??
Ken - interesting story. So much for that R13. Do you recall the SN so we can avoid it ? 
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-11-08 18:43
Steve, I had to laugh at your comment about the serial number!
Old Geezer, If you are ever in Los Angeles lets get together, have a few Margaritas and play duets! Who knows maybe we can put the recordings on U tube! I don't think there are any recording of wasted clarinet players!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-11-08 20:16
Steve -
The serial number was 64907. Actually, a professional player fell in love with it and is, I think, still playing it.
To check for this sort of damage, point the upper joint toward a light and look down it from the top. If the finish is dull above the register vent, its been tampered with, probably in an attempt to change the intonation, or, as happened to me, as a result of incompetence.
Ken Shaw
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