 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: karlbonner82
Date: 2010-11-02 09:23
One of my biggest frustrations is that all through middle school and high school, we never once played a piece where the Bb instruments have four or more accidentals in the key signature. Flattest key was Db and sharpest was G - though we used G much, much less than Db.
Now, I can understand that timbre and intonation in the key of G is tricky since it involves lots of side keys and 123 brass fingerings. However, I also noticed that many band members were constantly playing wrong notes. Flutes could handle 4 or 5 flats quite easily; why couldn't clarinets, trumpets and saxes handle the same number of sharps?
I'm looking for band repertoire in the keys of G, D and A, maybe also G-flat (got a chance to play in this key ONCE at a regional festival - kind of a "super honor band." ) and I'd really like to hear some recordings of symphonic bands playing in the key of D or A. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-11-02 11:06
I'm confused, since G, D and A Major are only 1, 2 and 3 sharps respectively (and G is one of the keys often used in school band lit). I don't think you mean Gb, Db, and Ab, because you mention Gb separately and Ab has only 4 flats. If you mean "concert" pitches, that's still A, E and B, only one of which (B) has more than 4 sharps. What is it you're looking for? And are you looking to perform it with a band or just music to play at home (which would include a lot more than band repertoire)?
Karl
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Author: William
Date: 2010-11-02 14:53
Unless you "suffer" from perfect pitch, why would you ever *need* to hear a band play in concert D?? There is a reason why most band literature doesn't exceed concert Db or concert C--the arrangements would be too hard for most amature bands to play and publishers couldn't sell them. In all my years of playing in bands & orchestra's, most of the only times I've ever had to play in "those" keys were in theatre pit shows were some diva lead singer could only sing in a key full of sharps for the clarinetist.
FWIW, some years ago, I do remember seeing an arrangement of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto for wind band written in the original key of concert A with the Bb clarinet playing in the (clarinet) key of B. If you really want personal "pain", go for it. Or, you could just use your A and let the band suffer by themselves--LOL.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-11-02 17:33
Generally, I think most composers want their music to be played well, so they write in keys that they know can be played as easily as possible. From a composer's perspective, there is no inherent benefit in making the music harder for the ensemble.
The only times I have seen many flats and sharps in the clarinet parts was in music that changed keys a lot. The composer wanted more and more contrast, so some of those keys had a lot of sharps or flats.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-11-02 17:57
This is an issue particularly with band music - to which the OP alluded - because, especially in music composed or arranged for less than college-level bands, the concert keys are often determined by what the result will be for the clarinets and trumpets (who frequently make up the majority of the instruments). It isn't so unusual in high school music, for example, to have the concert pitch instruments playing in D-flat major because in most of the "heterogeneous" band method books (designed to allow different instruments to be mixed together in the same class grouping) the flutes, trombones, etc. start out with the bottom five notes of B-flat major and move quickly to E-flat major and so learn B-flat, E-flat and A-flat before they ever see their natural versions. In fact, as any band director knows, it's like pulling teeth getting flutes and trombones to play B-natural or E-natural because they've learned the flat versions first. So 5 flats isn't so far removed from home for those players as it would be for clarinet and trumpet players who begin in written C and F Major or alto sax players who start in written G and C Major in those band methods. The composers end up writing in concert keys that are convenient for clarinets, trumpets, and tenor and alto saxes. It works out pretty well for French Horns as well, which makes life easier for pretty much everyone but the flutes, oboes and low brasses.
You get more variety in orchestral music where the strings outnumber everything else.
FWIW,
Karl
Post Edited (2010-11-03 17:06)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-11-03 15:36
That's what Baermann III is for.
It's an interesting exercise to play through the Mozart Concerto and Quintet on the Bb clarinet. It makes you recognize holes in what you many have imagined is a solid technique. It's also musically enlightening. When I play in a way this unfamiliar, I become much more aware of how the harmony goes and how the phrases work.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Philcoman
Date: 2010-11-03 16:52
I have the Mozart Concerto scored for Bb clarinet -- it is indeed an interesting exercise and very useful for promoting agility.
Having said that -- and getting back to the topic -- how about a show of hands: how many are anxious to hear a high school band play a piece that features five sharps or flats for the clarinets and trumpets?
Uh huh, that's what I thought. Neither do the parents nor the band leaders trying to keep funding for their programs. My guess is you won't find much.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-11-03 18:34
There are instances where band transcriptions of orchestral works are made easier and also made more difficult.
Couple of examples being a band arrangement of Shostakovich's 'Festive Overture' that has been transposed down to concert Ab which puts the clarinet solo in Bb (the orchestral version is in A and the clarinet solo when played on an A clarinet is in C) which makes it go below the break too often.
A band arrangement of Offenbach's 'Orpheus in the Underworld' is put up a semitone from the original G to Ab, but the oboe solo then ends up in Ab minor (and there haven't been any Db oboes made for decades now).
Borodin's 'Polovtsian Dances' has been put up a semitone but this too makes the clarinet solos hard work when the originals were played on Bb (so a B clarinet playing from the original part would be good here!)
I do find it odd that even if some orchestral works are in band-fiendly keys, arrangers will still find some bizarre need to transpose them further - take Elgar's 'Nimrod' (from 'Enigma Variations') - original key is Eb but band transcription is in Db. What was wrong with the original key of Eb when this is a sensible key for all wind instruments - both those at concert pitch and otherwise?
Fortunately there are works that do remain in the original key - Bernstein's 'Candide Overture' is one such piece, so there are some small victories.
The band arrangement of Hamish McCunn's 'The Land of the Mountain and the Flood' has been put up a semitone from the orchestral original that starts in D Major and finishes in B Major, so that makes the oboe parts (now playing in Eb and C) much easier than the orchestral version.
There are loads of band pieces that do go into sharp keys for some sections (putting the clarinets in keys of B or F# Major) but they don't stick hard and fast as why anyone would want to be running around in five or more sharps is beyond anyone's guess.
If there was a lot of band arrangements in sharp keys for everyone and everyone had trouble playing them, then they would just collect dust in libraries and waste time and money being printed, and having them transposed into a more manageable key could breach copyright.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: karlbonner82
Date: 2010-11-05 05:13
It's not just the fact that sharp keys are rarely seen. More importantly, the NUMBER of different keys in high school band repertoire is limited to 6 or 7 for 99.8% of the repertoire, and even Db and G are moderately rare. . It's my impression, though, that high school orchestras use a more diverse range of keys than high school bands - as in 8 or 9 of them. This is the part I don't get. Do they really expect that high school orchestras are more talented than their band counterparts, or does it have something to do with the strings being able to handle a wider range of keys without things getting awkward?
And yes, I do have perfect pitch problems. Different keys have radically different moods for me, and even the pitch tuning makes a huge difference. In addition to clarinet, I'm also in the process of learning how to DJ right now. In DJing, the tempo (BPM) is absolutely critical and you need to use pitch adjusters to synchronize beats. But this throws the tuning off, at least when done on analog turntables. And to my ear, the difference between A-440 tuning and A-430 tuning is almost like night and day. Even going from 440 to 435 is immediately noticeable.
To my ear, D major and A major are by far the most enjoyable, at least when it comes to classical music.
As far as the flutes and flat keys go, the fact that students are used to playing in Eb or Ab or Db all the time doesn't make the fingering scheme any less awkward in the absolute sense. If the music had a ton of "black notes," I bet the flute section would find itself in deep trouble in these keys, even if things are second nature to them in the easier repertoire. I know this firsthand, because I also dabbled in the flute a bit when I was in my teens, long enough that I learned to dread the keys of Ab and Db. I never played in the band on flute, but flat keys can appear elsewhere. In contrast, keys of G and D and A were surprisingly easy.
I'd love to see that A major band arrangement for the Mozart concerto!
Post Edited (2010-11-05 05:35)
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