 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stebinus2
Date: 2010-10-07 12:56
I got some of this Jet Magic a year ago and didn't realize the stuff is only good for six months. It's kind of expensive for me because I don't use it very often and then it's no good any more. Is there any other black epoxy for rebuilding tenons and other chips out of plastic horns? Something that has a longer shelf life?
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Author: TomA ★2017
Date: 2010-10-07 13:28
Hi,
I can't answer that specific question, but I can tell you that black pigment for epoxy is available.
I have used it with clear epoxy and microballoons as filler with good results.
Using this pigment would let you use your favorite (non-black) epoxy. But as far as I know, epoxy in general has a limited shelf-life.
Tom
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-10-07 13:38
Epoxy lasts much longer if stored in the freezer, up to 10 years. Black ABS cement bonds well (much better than epoxy) with 'plastic' clarinets, and can be reinforced with a piece of black cloth.
For black 'hard rubber', CA (superglue) is probably best, reinforced with black cloth and/or copier toner powder, or hard rubber dust.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: stebinus2
Date: 2010-10-07 14:17
Tom can you tell me where to get the pigment? Will it work with JB Weld?
Thanks
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Author: BobD
Date: 2010-10-07 14:37
"carbon black' is the basic black powder used for making "anything" black.
Bob Draznik
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Author: TomA ★2017
Date: 2010-10-07 15:16
Stebinus,
I bought the black epoxy toner at Conrad's (in Germany), which probably won't help you much
But it was in the hobby section (model planes and other such items), next to the various epoxy-related supplies. So I would expect you to find it in a store that carries such supplies. It is a liquid, but I don't know what base.
Can't answer the question about JB Weld.
Tom
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-10-07 15:24
You can mix black Dylon fabric dye powder with Araldite to turn it black.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2010-10-07 15:25
In many areas, it is difficult to find carbon black any more. Retailers tend to not like what happens if the package leaks. However, I found it easily in a paste form at a tile shop. They have a wide variety of colors in order to match adhesives to stone counters as they are being assembled. I have had good luck mixing that with epoxy in order to match the color of the instrument. You may need to ask for it, but they probably have some out in the shop.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-10-07 21:55
Powdered charcoal makes acceptable carbon black, I've also used printer or copier toner powder (powdered black styrene plastic). Excellent black epoxy, brand 'Conap', is available in the US from 'Golfworks',an online seller of golfclub building supplies. The black Conap is good enough to use on the club face 'inserts' on wood drivers, but is usually used to glue the heads to the shafts. Pretty impressive stuff. Stored in the freezer, will last 10 yrs+
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: beejay
Date: 2010-10-07 22:11
There is an extremely good product made in England called Milliput. You mix two pastes together to form a product that can be shaped with water yet dries rock hard. And yes, it comes in ebony black.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-10-07 23:45
Has anybody tried laser printer toner for staining epoxy? A refill bottle from eBay should last half a lifetime...
--
Ben
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-10-08 05:42
Here the deal with epoxy It is a plastic and not a glue, so it's really not the best product to use. Jasperbay really has the best idea.
There are over 10,000 types of epoxy's ranging from being really soft to as hard as a rock.
Carbon black is so simple to make. Take a candle, light it of course, and the smoke coming off of the flame is carbon black. You can use a glass and aim the smoke at the glass and before long you have plenty of carbon to do the job. The cool part is it's non toxic.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-10-08 05:43
Funny that as I thought about photocopier toner when I read "Retailers tend to not like what happens if the package leaks".
Cleaning up some spilt pigment powders isn't an easy feat and can often make more of a mess in the process. Years ago I spilt some red/orange powder ingredient used in Indian cookery in the kitchen and trying to clean it up was a nightmare as it got onto my hands and then onto everything I touched - and trying to clean it with a damp cloth just spread it around even more. I suppose the best thing to clean any spilt dry powder up with is a vacuum cleaner.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2010-10-08 08:08
beejay. You're in danger of upsetting the Welsh - Milliput is made in Wales which is not part of England.
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Author: stebinus2
Date: 2010-10-08 08:44
So...prefering something I can get in US...Is this Conap something that will effectively rebuild chipped out areas in tenons, bells etc that I can file and sand to shape? Otherwise can someone give me specific name brands for epoxies to add carbon black or toner to that will last some time if frozen or whatever?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-10-08 10:04
I have tried many epoxies and some plastic glues and generally prefer epoxy. Some brands I found to be good are Bison, Araldite and Devcon. I most often use Bison.
Most (possibly all) epoxies would take forever if not hot enouhg. I generally prefer to put a lamp on it and get it to about 40-50 degrees. 25 should be ok too but I found some still not completely cured and still a bit soft after two days in that temp.
If more than a bit is missing from a tenon or other part and I rebuild it with glue then I use stainless steel pins for reinforcement. Sometimes just straight parallel to the body and sometimes along the circumference of the tenon.
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Author: stebinus2
Date: 2010-10-08 13:29
OK. Here is a list of Devcon products. Can you recommend one that will last for some years in the freezer or out and then tell me what kind of specific black dye I need? Thanks.
* 1 Minute™ Epoxy
* 5 Minute® Epoxy
* 5 Minute® Epoxy Gel
* 5 Minute® Epoxy FR
* 10 Minute™ Epoxy
* 10 Minute™ FR Epoxy
* 2 Ton® Clear Epoxy
* Epoxy Plus™ 25
* HP 250
* Food Grade Pot and Seal
* HP 250 Q
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-10-08 14:22
Not really. The only Devcon epoxy I've tried was the 2 Ton Clear Epoxy and I finished it in about a year since I used it for other stuff not only woodwind repair. I don't keep any of my epoxies in the freezer, all are in room temp so have no idea how long they wouild last in the feezer. My Bison is about a year and a half now and still works fine. That's as long as I've used any epoxy. Re the black dye, mine came in a no name plastic bag bought at a local store so I have no idea about that too.
I think you might just have to try.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-10-08 14:28
> Re the black dye, mine came in a no name plastic bag bought at a local
> store so I have no idea about that too.
How would you know it's food safe and not hazardous in other ways?
--
Ben
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2010-10-08 15:17
For the amount you need, it is highly unlikely that outgassing (if any) would be of such quantity as to be a problem. Just don't plan on eating your clarinet.
For what it's worth, the epoxy I use is West Systems from West Marine just because it's what I have around. I am not particularly worried about the pigment since it is designed for use on kitchen counters and will be encapsulated in the epoxy anyway.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2010-10-10 23:03
"beejay. You're in danger of upsetting the Welsh - Milliput is made in Wales which is not part of England"
Sorry!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-10-11 04:21
>> How would you know it's food safe and not hazardous in other ways? <<
Hmm... in what way would that matter? Do you mean inhaling while working with it for example? I don't. After it's in the epoxy that doesn't matter at all anyway. I think it's sold for dying fabrics so people are working with it. What should I be worried about?
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Author: stebinus2
Date: 2010-11-17 22:30
Eureka! Devcon 2 Ton Epoxy plus the black pigment stain (G22) sold by Ferrees. Mix equal parts of all, the two epoxy liquids and the black dye. Let it sit a half hour or so (can't recall exact time) before applying so it won't be runny. Give it two days to harden. Then file, sand, polish, buff, whatever. Very hard, will buff to a shine and nice black match. I started with files and then worked through sand and emery papers progressively up to 2000 grit. Other dyes may work as well but I had that one and it does the job. I also touched it up with a black sharpie pen and then buffed for good measure to finish.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2010-11-18 11:01
Some people like to experiment with various possible solutions while others want recipes. With epoxies best bet is to check for "Best used before" type statements in the very fine print. Some stores keep stuff on the shelves forever. 5 minute epoxy is what I use and I run a test "batch" first to gage the set up and hardening time.
Sometimes you can find black pigment at Cement supply stores....and as someone has mentioned ceramic tile stores. Printer toner can be very messy.
Bob Draznik
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