 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: S.H.J.
Date: 2010-08-31 18:44
I play a Leblanc Cadenza, which has gold-plated register and thumb tubes. I took it to my tech a few days ago because i was having trouble getting my throat Bb in tune, which was almost 20 cents flat. He told me that this wasn't the first time he's had a Cadenza in the shop with a flat throat Bb, and said he suspects gold-plating register tubes decreases the width of the tube design. Does anyone else have this suspicion about gold-plated register tubes? And also, what is the intended function of gold-plated register and thumb tubes?
Post Edited (2010-08-31 18:45)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-08-31 18:49
Gold plating is usually measured in microns (i.e. incredibly thin) so that should have no effect on hole size and pitch.
As to the benefits - better ask the marketing department, they probably came up with the idea.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-08-31 20:26
My guess to the reason for the plating in the first place is that they are the only tone holes continously exposed to condensation ALL the time. Historically (at least for me) these tubes start to take on a corroded appearance after about 5 years or so. Gold is resistant to oxidation and should not do this. Is it necessary? Who knows. I'd rather have the keys all in gold to avoid acidity wear. Of course I've found out the Yamaha CSG plating of 3 microns does physically wear down after a year or so on the "day to day surfaces."
.......................Paul Aviles
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Author: Morrie Backun
Date: 2010-08-31 21:01
Hello,
Gold plating is indeed very thin and should not have any material effect on the intonation. I see that your address is very near to our shop, so if you wish, give me a call and I will check the Clarinet at no charge.
There are several things that can cause intonation problems including leakage, venting, bore changes and register tube sizing/protrusion/blockage to name a few. Once I have a chance to examine the instrument it should be possible to figure out what is necessary to get the instrument playing well for you.
Best regards,
Morrie Backun
Backun Musical Services
604-205-5770
morrie@backunmusical.com
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2010-08-31 22:12
Now, how's THAT for prompt customer service? Gotta like it!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-31 22:45
Contact the plating company to see what they pre-plate them with - they may have a copper flash, then nickel, then silver and finally gold which will decrease the diameter if there's 3 microns of each. The gold plating may be thin, but that's on top of all the other layers if your plating firm has done things this way.
I know with gold plated keywork, some companies tend to plate gold over silver which is in turn plated over nickel which is in turn plated over copper - each layer of plating acting as an undercoat for the next element to adhere to.
Sometimes the plating companies can put too much copper or silver on, and items wired up near the edges of the plating racks can get more metal plated onto them.
Measure an unplated speaker tube and also one that's come back from the platers to see what the difference is between them.
Or could it be a batch of speaker and thumb tubes that haven't been machined to the specified measurements by the engineering company that makes them? These things happen as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-08-31 23:02
Chris, this is not an aftermarket plating, but a factory feature. In theory, it should be to Morrie's specifications.
But there are always possibilities of errors in the manufacturing process. That's wy Morrie is so great about standing behind his products. Andone of the reasons I got a Symphonie.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-31 23:37
With production plating (which is often out-sourced) there are variables beyond the manufacturer's control, just as there are variables in any kind of work that is out-sourced.
The manufacturer more often than not only finds out too late that their instruments have been fitted with parts from a rogue batch when they expect all parts to have been made to specific dimensions.
Only the in-house manufacturing process can be closely monitored and changed if need be to maintain consistency, but one assumes any parts that have been manufactured by an outside company to be consistent as well.
The problem is then having the labourious task of checking each batch thoroughly as they come in to see if all the pieces in that batch (or a sample of them) meet with the original specifications.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-01 02:48
Take up Morrie Backuns offer, he's a fantastic clarinet maker and as he said, there are many reasons that the Bb is playing flat, including the fact that the tube may be miss sized, it happens. It could also be as simple as the register key not opening enough but Morrie will fix it if anyone can. GO! ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: S.H.J.
Date: 2010-09-01 05:37
Thanks Morrie, I'm honoured by your offer, but my tech already fixed it =)
The flat throat Bb was because to the register tube, and the tech adjusted it a bit. Now, it's perfectly in tune with the other throat tones =D
I was only curious of what my tech said about the gold-plating and all.
Again, thank you!
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2010-09-02 19:55
What changes to the register tube did your tech do to correct the flat intonation?
Jerry
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Author: S.H.J.
Date: 2010-09-05 03:37
My limited understanding is that he made some alterations to the width of the tube with a thin screwdriver. I'm really happy with the throat Bb now =)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-05 04:46
>> My limited understanding is that he made some alterations to the width of the tube with a thin screwdriver. <<
Unless what he removed was just dirt, that doesn't make much sense.
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Author: S.H.J.
Date: 2010-09-06 21:25
Maybe it would have made more sense if i said "he altered the dimensions of the tube using a thin screwdriver, so that the air would flow out in a slightly different direction." It was a very delicate procedure, as you can imagine.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-09-06 22:21
SHJ-
Did he take the key off when he did this??
I just remembered that I saw a Leblanc/Backun clarinet with an adjusting screw on the register key.a couple years ago.
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Author: S.H.J.
Date: 2010-09-07 00:19
Yep, he took the key off and then took the whole register tube out and worked his magic.
All Leblanc/Backun clarinets (except the Bliss) have an adjusting screw on the register key.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-07 04:33
>> and worked his magic. <<
The thing is, although I know what you meant, there is no magic. It's a technical procedure so...
>> Maybe it would have made more sense if i said "he altered
>> the dimensions of the tube using a thin screwdriver, so that
>> the air would flow out in a slightly different direction." It was
>> a very delicate procedure, as you can imagine.
No, it wouldn't really make more sense. Unless there was dirt that was easily removed with a screwdriver, the only thing really possible to do with it is scratch it a lot, scraping plating/metal to very slowly enlarge it. Is that what they did? I wouldn't call that "delicate" at all. Still very unclear.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-09-07 09:00
I agree, it doesn't make sense. Even if he DID use a screw driver to remove dirt, that is something that could be easily done with the tube still inside the clarinet. Removing the tube is not at all necessary.
Personally, I would not use a screw drive to do anything except move screws... but that's just me.
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