 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2010-03-01 20:54
The (high school) orchestra that I'm in is currently playing Borodin's Symphony #2. There's a spot in this piece that I'm struggling with to get to tempo: http://i45.tinypic.com/2lmpirl.gif (starting at F; the eighth - eighth - quarter pattern). The conductor is taking this at around quarter note = 168 (not proper tempo marking for 3/2, but you get what I mean). Despite how much I try to practice it, I can't tongue that fast; the conductor stated that I'm going to have to learn how to double tongue to get the notes up to tempo; however, despite that I am taking private lessons, my teacher does not know how to double tongue... how do I start with approaching this?
Thanks for any help.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
Post Edited (2010-03-01 20:56)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-03-01 23:28
If you can't double tongue then cheat with the breath. Do a strong haa on the first 8th note in each pattern and tongue the rest.
Peter Cigleris
Post Edited (2010-03-02 15:39)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-03-01 23:39
Not every clarinetist can double tongue, as a matter of fact relatively few do. It's a difficult technique to learn and some people just can't do it because of tongue size or other possible problems. In any case, it can take a long time to learn how to do it so it can be done well enough. I suggest you tongue every other note and if possible slur to the second note and tongue the next two so it's two and two. That's what pros do if they simply can't do it fast enough Te a ta ta, te a ta ta if you do it fast enough and a light enough stroke it almost sounds like you're tonguing it all, almost I say. Good luck, ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-03-02 00:21
There are a few possibilities. You can try flute/brass style double tonguing. Some clarinet players do it and do it well, but I've never been able to make it work.
You can try what could be called a bounce method. Michele Gingras presents it in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fi4G1JwvKE
David Pino suggests something similar: http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/DoubleTonguing.html
I've tried it, and I think Gingras and Pino have some great ideas.
Finally, there's another method that I "invented," although it probably isn't original. It started when I came across this tonguing article by Roger McKinney:
http://www.tcnj.edu/~mckinney/tonguing.htm
McKinney advocates tonguing with the "n" or "nu" syllable. Using this concept and a lot of breath support, I tried some very rapid tonguing, and I moved my tongue slightly from side to side as I did it. In other words, the first stroke was slightly on the left side of the reed tip, the next one was slightly on the right, etc.
I was pleased with the result, and it really isn't that difficult to do.
Good luck!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-03-02 13:01
Just to be clear - are you talking about the first movement, letter F (Animato assai)?
Karl
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-03-02 15:24
A few suggestions-And keep in mind, I cant really get into this thoroughly without working with you.
I am not familiar with the passage in question, but a few things I do with myself and my students might be helpful.
Set metronome to 168.
Start with tongue on reed, and play first note by removing tongue from reed. Once you can effortlessly play ONE note, WITH METRONOME, add notes from the passage in question. how many notes? As many as you can play clean. A good chunk to start with might be the first beat of 16ths (I am assuming they are 16ths), plus one note-you always want to finish on a "click". After you can do those isolated notes clean, add some more notes, maybe another beat plus one. Sometimes you might not be able to do an entire beat plus one clean, so you reduce it to whatever you can play clean. if the part that you can add clean DOES NOT end on a click, make sure you finish in your head, the entire beat, plus one note. keep adding notes/beats, until you can play it.
What is most important, is that the tongue moves, and touches the same part of the reed the same for every note. Another thing that is most important, is that you are relaxed and moving the tongue effortlessly through the entire practice session, and the entire passage. Personally, I find this method of practice for rapid tongueing, to be the fastest cleanest and most efficient.
To practice fast tonguing, you have to tongue fast. And if you cant tongue twenty notes fast, then do 16 notes fast, and if you cant do that do, 8, do 4, or three, two or one. Start with what you can do, and then build on that, making sure that the tongue stroke, and relaxation are a constant.
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2010-03-02 20:35
@kdk: Yes.
For now, I'll start experimenting with double tonguing - thanks for the help.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-03-03 03:56
This kind of passage is as easy an introduction to double tonguing as you're likely to find, much like the Gallop in William Tell (the Lone Ranger theme). You only have two fast notes at a time (the same pattern essentially as two-slur-two tongued) and you don't have to coordinate finger movements with it. You can extend the technique once you feel comfortable with it.
Karl
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