 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2010-02-21 14:24
Nice to see someone isn't in the "dime a dozen" category of great clarinetists.
Most of us well never have to be (or get to be) "Fending off courtships from other orchestras"
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Author: William
Date: 2010-02-21 15:18
I've heard Burt Hara play live during a recital/clinic presentation here in Madison, and based on his performance, I would say that he could sit in any chair, anywhere. Musically & technically, as impeccable as the art of clarinetistry gets--a joy to listen to.
Post Edited (2010-02-21 16:06)
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Author: diz
Date: 2010-02-22 08:20
He "won" mmm, that's a typically arrogant comment, eh. Surely "achieved" is a nicer term, winning means that people LOST. In the case of auditioning for such a wonderful orchestra as the NYPO, no one who's up to the challenge is a looser?DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Yup, Burt's World Class.
>
> He won Gigliotti's position right after he retired.
>
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-02-22 10:17
>> no one who's up to the challenge is a looser? <<
I'm sure some are looser than others.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-02-22 14:06
Thanks for pointing that out, Clarinbass. Got a chuckle, being a language tutor, myself! ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif) Hint to the world: Words mean things!
I have seen a number of cyclists wearing jersies in organized rides where I volunteey, proclaiming "Second place is just the first loser."
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2010-02-22 14:08)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-02-22 14:17
Now, come on - as I've heard it, he auditioned for Ormandy in Ormandy's hotel room across the street from the Academy of Music. They just didn't have 200 players applying for every audition the way they do now (we were all born too late - sigh...)
Karl
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-02-22 14:27
I'm sure Ormandy wanted to hear him play, and to meet him, but he was "fingered" probably by Bonade as the guy for the job.
Back then a phone call and a recommendation could get you a job.
Of course he got that recommendation by being an excellent player.
The first work he played with Phila. was a Strauss work (Richard).
He had to do that without a rehearsal, and told Ormandy that he didn't know the work - Ormandy replied " you'll like it!!"
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-02-22 14:37
In Bonades papers, which I think are at the University of maryland, there are several letters of recommendation written by Bonade, on Gigliottis behalf. There were a couple for Philly (pryor to 1949), Boston symphony, I think Cleveland and also New York.
I dont know if this is true, but I heard that Gigliotti "won" the audition over Harold Wright.
Auditions were certainly different back then, but there was some sort of process an audition which led to an appointment.
Recently, I read Ricardo Morales bio at the Kimmel center, and it says that he was "appointed" to the Philadelphia principal chair.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-02-22 15:38
I would guess "appointments" follow successful auditions. One is the selection process, the other is the legal act of hiring.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-02-22 16:44
David -
I've always heard that as a Beecham story. Sir Thomas was guest-conducting a concert that included the Brahms 3rd. After he ran through the rest of the program, he said, "Gentlemen, we've all played the Brahms 3rd hundreds of times. Let's pretend we rehearsed it and come in tonight refreshed and ready to go."
As the players rushed out, a young horn player came up to Beecham and said, "Maestro, ... I've ... never played the Brahms 3rd before." Beecham roared, "Oh, you'll love it!"
Ken Shaw
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2010-02-22 23:18
This thread is getting all cockeyed so here is the truth as I know it...(and I studied with Mr. Gigliotti in the late 70s)
Facts:
1) Gigliotti was appointed/auditioned for the position in 1948. In those days, auditions consisted of playing for the conductor and perhaps the personnel manager. In those days, if you had not graduated from Curtis, you had better odds auditioning for the Berlin Phil on a french system clarinet.
2) Gigliotti was actually offered the principal job in Chicago, prior to his appointment in Philly. Also principal in St. Louis. Both jobs did not materialize due to the conductors rescinding their offer. Gigliotti was always bitter about this and always told me to never trust a conductor. And he was right.
3) Tabuteau and Kincaid gave Gigliotti a very hard time about his sound (in part because of the legacy of McClane). He never lived it down and as a result overblew much of the time until Muti came to Philly and had the orchestra playing in softer dynamic ranges. That said, his setup was not conducive to playing in a large modern orchestra in a dead, nonreverberant hall.
4) Using the older players as models for how things are done today is absurd. It was common for section jobs in smaller orchestras to have less than 10 people show up, .....and 9 of them couldn't play Come Home to Jesus in half notes. Esp during WWII when many people were off fighting or playing in the service bands.
5) Speaking of service bands, Gigliotti served in the Navy Band in Philly until he was called up for action in the Pacific Theater. He served on the USS Randolph which was hit by kamikaze bombers. My favorite quote was when someone asked him if he got nervous when performing....his answer was: "How can I get nervous playing in an orchestra after being on an aircraft carrier in WWII that was being hit by kamikaze bombers?". And the man truly had nerves of steel....he was perhaps the most confident man I have ever met in any field be it music, business, sciences, or the trades. He truly thought he was the best.
6) McClane wanted Wright as his successor, but for some reason it never came to fruition. McClane had annointed Wright as the thread that went from Hamelin (Boston SO) to him and then down. Wright ended up where he belonged....in a "French" orchestra that played in a hall that allowed him to play with a double lip and never above the forte dynamic. It probably extended his career by a few years and aided in his reputation and elegant style of playing. It would not have worked in the CSO or Cleveland.
Additional addenda that smacks of solely my opinion:
1) Burt Hara was indeed invited to audition for the orchestra, but was a "favored son candidate" and fit the profile perfectly. Aside from his being a wonderful player, he graduated from Curtis, had played principal in a major orchestra for several years, and was young enough to serve in the PO for a good length of time. The job was his at the time it was offered to him.
2) The best thing the Philly orchestra ever did in terms of breaking down the barriers of its own inbreeding was inviting Riccardo to become the principal clarinet of the orchestra. They got the best clarinet player available in the world, but more importantly, allowed for successful future candidates who did not have the proper "pedigree" of a Curtis degree.
This new direction was upheld by the appointment of the tuba player a few years ago. Congrats to the Philly orchestra for entering the 20th century in 200X - about 25 years late.
3) the "you'll love it story" is originally attributed to Beacham by several sources and was said to a horn player (not one of us). This Ormandy variation is an American mutation of a classic and should be killed in its infancy.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-02-22 23:55
Most don't remember this (or knew), but when Burt joined the Phila. Orchestra, they were just about to go on strike.
Was a rough first season. I saw them perform onstage in Media, PA without a rehearsal.
That could have been his first performance with the P.O.
The Orchestra management was pretty brutal too - they even called the players "entertainers".
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-02-23 04:02
>> I'm sure some are looser than others. <<
Actually, Re-thinking about it now, these are classical clarinet players... so more correct to say "less tight".
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