 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-11 06:54
I have a Leblanc Bass clarinet that i am my parents purchased in the mid 90's. Its a 5 piece wooden instrument that says Leblanc Paris France on the stamp. The serial number is 4726. When I look that number up on http://www.drrick.com/leblanc.html (or many other) lists, the only number that matches is a Noblet Alto clarinet, which clearly this isnt that. Basically, I want to know what model instrument i have and if it is professional like i believe it is or not. The year would be nice too, but not at all necessary. if you could help me or point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.
thanks,
John
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-02-11 07:24
I assume they bought it used in the 90s. For a start see http://www.lynsgarden.co.uk/Clarinets/logo.jpg
The serial number list matches for a Noblet bass clarinet too (from 1964), not just an alto. But I think Noblets have that engraved so if it doesn't say Noblet it's probably not a Noblet.
Is it possible that the serial number is worn enough that you are missing one digit? Like a 1 at the beginning? Then it could be a Leblanc from 1984.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2010-02-11 12:53
My Leblanc LL bass clarinet, from the early 1960's has a serial #55xx. Definitely a professional instrument. John, does yours have intertwined "L"s below the G. Leblanc logo?
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-11 16:45
It is definetly 4 numbers, i looked again at it really hard and its pretty clear, nothing is worn off. in looking at those logos posted, its got the "G" on top, so its an after 1972 instrument by that page. i assumed it was too "new" to be on the lists yet since they only seem to go up to the mid 80's
Larry, there is no intertwined L's
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-11 17:03
Attachment: IMG_4373.JPG (781k)
Attachment: IMG_4375.JPG (982k)
Attachment: IMG_4379.JPG (938k)
here are some pictures of the top and bottom emblems. the top one is much more worn as you can see. i never noticed before that the lyre holder setup covers part of the emblem, like it was added afterwards or something
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2010-02-11 21:01
IMO it is a "professional" instrument, albeit not top-of-the-line. It has been completely repadded by someone, as Leblanc bass clarinets were factory fitted with skin pads, not brown leather. Lyre holder is puzzling -- all the Leblancs I've seen have the lyre holder soldered to the neck ferrule. If the instrument is an LL, that logo would be hidden under the rather clumsily fitted
lyre appliance.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-02-11 23:54
Here is picture of mine.
I believe it is an L400 model (though I don't think I have heard of a Leblanc bass clarinet of that vintage not called an L400 - so no idea what other models there were, or the importance of discovering the model is to you). I think it was regarded as professional grade model of its time, with forked Eb alternative.
It plays as well as I need it to, and even better to play since I bought a more angled neck for it this year.
Chris
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-12 00:53
i dont know what "that vintage" is since i dont know what year its from
mine doesnt have the Ab/Eb alternate either
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-02-12 01:07
Try copy and pasting this link
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnLeblanc.htm#SNLeblanc
Does not answer your question, but does have further information.
The Bass serial chart (it is duplicated on the page) there starts with #7600 at 1964
But there is a clarinet model 7165 that has your serial number in 1970 range - but it is not clear what type of clarinet the 7165 is so could easily not relate to bass clarinets.
Perhaps Steve can clarify the chart if he stops by this thread
Chris
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2010-02-13 12:57
I told the OP that it was a pro instrument if a "Leblanc" versus a Noblet.
I originally told the OP that maybe it was made newer than those serial number lists, but he said Leblanc was unable to identify when it was made.
But, now that I think of it, after seeing the emblem itself it has the G (of G Leblanc) located in the upper portion of the emblem. From that emblem itself (which varied throughout the years) I think it' is a 1960s model.
I beleive Vytas has a much better idea of when that emblem was used. Or could just search for it as I know he mentions the diferent emblems in past posts.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-02-13 16:30
The emblem corresponds to emblem #2 on the clarinetperfection site. The widest range I think that emblem could cover is 1950s to early 1970s. In addition to the information on that site, I have a pair of original "Symphonie Model" clarinets that date from the late 40s or early 50s. These have emblem #1. My L7 from the 70s has emblem #3. I note, from pictures, that the Symphonie II, 3, and IV all have emblem #2. In an earlier thread, Vytas states that the Symphony II was made in 1955-56.
Larry Bocaner says his bass clarinet 55xx dates from the early 60's. The earliest number in the Leblanc bass clarinet serial number list at clarinetperfection is 7600 from 1964. The range of bass clarinet numbers for 1964 is about 500. Projecting backwards, which is what I think one has to do in this case, if the range is representative (but note that the ranges for the first few years in the serial number list run anywhere from 200 -500 each year), Larry's would be from around 1960 and yours, John would be a couple of years earlier.
Vytas can probably be more precise but the evidence I see suggests that your bass clarinet is a professional model made in the mid-late 50's or very early 60's. (French Leblanc clarinets from this period are all professional models AFAIK -- the intermediates were Noblets)
Taking off the lyre holder might reveal the LL logo -- or not. In any case, odds are that Leblanc didn't make more than 2 professional bass clarinet models in those days, one with a range to low C (which I assume Larry has) and one with a range to low Eb. (That's just an educated guess, however, based on a brochure from around 1974 that only identifies two models, the Model 325 (low Eb) and the Model 330 (low C).) The fact that the Model 325 is the lowest model number for bass clarinets in the clarinetperfection's serial number list, suggests that you either have a model 325 or perhaps its immediate predecessor (whatever that might have been).
Best regards,
Jack Kissinger
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-13 21:12
Jack Kissinger wrote:
> The emblem corresponds to emblem #2 on the clarinetperfection
> site. The widest range I think that emblem could cover is
> 1950s to early 1970s. In addition to the information on that
> site, I have a pair of original "Symphonie Model" clarinets
> that date from the late 40s or early 50s. These have emblem
> #1. My L7 from the 70s has emblem #3. I note, from pictures,
> that the Symphonie II, 3, and IV all have emblem #2. In an
> earlier thread, Vytas states that the Symphony II was made in
> 1955-56.
>
> Larry Bocaner says his bass clarinet 55xx dates from the early
> 60's. The earliest number in the Leblanc bass clarinet serial
> number list at clarinetperfection is 7600 from 1964. The range
> of bass clarinet numbers for 1964 is about 500. Projecting
> backwards, which is what I think one has to do in this case, if
> the range is representative (but note that the ranges for the
> first few years in the serial number list run anywhere from 200
> -500 each year), Larry's would be from around 1960 and yours,
> John would be a couple of years earlier.
>
> Vytas can probably be more precise but the evidence I see
> suggests that your bass clarinet is a professional model made
> in the mid-late 50's or very early 60's. (French Leblanc
> clarinets from this period are all professional models AFAIK --
> the intermediates were Noblets)
>
> Taking off the lyre holder might reveal the LL logo -- or not.
> In any case, odds are that Leblanc didn't make more than 2
> professional bass clarinet models in those days, one with a
> range to low C (which I assume Larry has) and one with a range
> to low Eb. (That's just an educated guess, however, based on a
> brochure from around 1974 that only identifies two models, the
> Model 325 (low Eb) and the Model 330 (low C).) The fact that
> the Model 325 is the lowest model number for bass clarinets in
> the clarinetperfection's serial number list, suggests that you
> either have a model 325 or perhaps its immediate predecessor
> (whatever that might have been).
>
> Best regards,
> Jack Kissinger
Wow that very helpful and surprising...if this instrument is in fact from the 60's or before, it is in remarkable shape. i have had it since around 1995 and it looked pretty darn close to new when i bought it.
I have a saxophone from the 1920's, a Conn New Wonder Series II and i knew if that case it is desirable to have an "older" instrument. I know that was the case with the old Mark VI saxes also. does that apply here as well, is it "good" or "better" to have an older instrument in the case of a clarinet/bass clarinet?
As far the the LL goes, there is no LL on the lower joint logo, so is it possible that it would still be on the upper joint if it werent on the lower one?
Also, I dont know much about LL instruments, were they supposed to be better tha the other Leblancs? I'd love to see a website that talks about the LL's and what they are/were...
Post Edited (2010-02-13 21:24)
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-02-13 23:14
On my soprano LL, the LL (which is ornate, with the second L reversed and both leaning in to create a tringular appearance almost looking like a bell) is on the top joint only. I would imagine the bass version to be the same.
As for the desirability of older clarinets, then the sureness of fact is left, and the realms of opinion are entered!
I have clarinets that are half a century old and more that, having been professionally worked on, are in a better mechanical shape than when they left the factory. But wood is not like metal.
Take 20 identical modern instruments made to the same high specifications, and there will be differences amongst them when playing.
Opinions vary, but there are some notable old makes and models that have a very high reputation. Couesnon Monopoles are one (I am lucky enough to have 2 of those) and R13 have a "Golden Era".
But the benefits of modern machining and techniques are on the side of modern instruments, while cost cutting in manufacture for mass production, chasing profit, is against them (meaning everything from wood selection and treatment prior to manufacture right down to hand finish detailing)
With regard to Leblanc instruments in general, I do not know of a particular golden era, but LL instruments are very highly thought of.
With regards to bass clarinets in particular, the most significant mechanical aspect that is sought after for a top instrument is the double register, with a second vent in the neck. For intonation and ergonomics, many will advise to favour a modern Yamaha student model over an old wooden one.
I like my old Leblanc, and have no desire to play anything else.
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Author: TazJMT
Date: 2010-02-14 05:46
Chris J wrote:
>
> Opinions vary, but there are some notable old makes and models
> that have a very high reputation. Couesnon Monopoles are one (I
> am lucky enough to have 2 of those) and R13 have a "Golden
> Era".
>
What is the R13 golden era thought to be?
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