 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2010-02-02 05:01
I found the following video to be quite interesting and enlightening. I hope you enjoy it!
http://www.schreiberwinds.com/
p.s. I just found out that the Schreiber 6010, ABS plastic, student clarinet is pitched at 442. Would the simple replacement of a longer barrel make this clarinet suitable for the American 440 market?
Post Edited (2010-02-02 06:21)
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-02-02 06:40
Thank you for the link. I am guessing that the factory Markneukirchen was setup due to the lower cost of labor over former East Germany, comparing to Nauheim.
At any rate, making those clarinets is very manpower intensive, even with the use of CNC milling process. The buffet video and the Selmer video show the same sort of labor from mounting the posts to the final testing of the instruments.
And to think that even after all that work, there's still such variation with horns that rolled off the assembly line at the same time. Kind of funny really.
Post Edited (2010-02-02 19:57)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2010-02-02 14:14
"I just found out that the Schreiber 6010, ABS plastic, student clarinet is pitched at 442. Would the simple replacement of a longer barrel make this clarinet suitable for the American 440 market?"
Technically no. The scale would be altered, like moving the bridge on a guitar. However many instruments are already made at theoretically higher pitch than 442, and the player doesn't really notice.
After all, what exactly is the significance of that 442 when so many factors affect pitch?
442 at what external air temperature? 442 at what level of carbon dioxide and moisture at various locations of the bore? 442 allowing for what condensation inside the bore? 442 with how much of the fingertip "oozing" into the ring key tone hole chimneys? Using what embouchure? What strength of reed? What cut of lay? At what sound volume? Is the barrel pushed completely in? etc.
Especially when the difference between 442 and 440 is barely discerned by the human ear.
And there is larger than 2 hertz difference in the tuning of different notes anyway... Because of the acoustic design compromises.
The player lips the notes in tune if he has a good enough ear to notice the pitch difference.
Post Edited (2010-02-02 14:19)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-02-02 14:58
> Especially when the difference between 442 and 440 is barely discerned by
> the human ear.
That's about 8 cents difference.
--
Ben
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-02-02 19:31
Very slick and technically impressive manufacturing.
Treatment of wood however gives me great concern... hacking off all the wood down to finished dimensions in a single pass may be very cost effective, but it doesn't do anything to relieve the stresses inherent in the wood, in fact it greatly increases them.
Also allowing plenty of time and incremental stages between operations provides much more accurate and stable dimensioning in the long run.
OK so these are not high end clarinets but if you look at the Buffet video you will see an almost identical approach to wood removal.
And you wonder why the wood moves after you receive your instrument!!
Check out Schwenke and Seggelke site (appropo another post today) and you will see they allow many months to build a clarinet for just these reasons.
The Eaton clarinets often spent years in between various wood stages and the final dimensioning.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-02-03 04:03
>> That's about 8 cents difference. <<
Real scientifc tests show people can notice a difference of about 5 cents at most, when notes are played one after another, in the area where the difference is most noticable. That is around the G above the staff. The difference gradually becomes less and less noticable if you move higher and lower. About 8 cents around the middle C note.
Regardless, Gordon is right that only checking in specific condition will show the pitch of the clarinet... which will most likely change in different condition. That is for example why I have to use very different barrel lengths in different tempratures, I'm sure the same as everyone else.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-02-03 04:28
E11's are pitched at 442.
No surprise: they used to be made by Schreiber.
We fix the E11 442 issue with a 13 series mouthpiece and/or longer barrel.
I'd love to test out one of the Schreiber horns for a year or so - I really
don't like the idea of the made in France E11's having glued on posts.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-02-03 13:30
I wonder how much time the wood is really set aside to rest in between each stage of the turning process? I don't think they'd go from one stage straight onto the next without any resting time in between as they'd end up with a lot of banana-shaped joints.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2010-02-03 15:11
Re tuning...I'll check later but I'm pretty sure I can discriminate between A440 and 442.....using my tuner and using the sound feature I hear a difference in the A's. Is it my imagination? Re the video....I saw a Schreiber at a music store last week.. It look very nicely made and something I would like to try.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2010-02-03 15:12)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-02-03 15:15
Arnoldstang, see my post above re notcing a difference. It is normal to be able to hear a difference between A=440 and A=442. That is specifically to those frequencies, not all notes with similar proportion of difference. However to test yourself, you can't do it by knowing what you are listening to. You need to have someone play them to you without knowing.
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Author: crsbryan
Date: 2010-02-03 15:37
8 cents? A new barrel will cost a lot more than that. Sounds like a deal to me!
Ahem...
There are some additional points to consider:
Most pitched percussion is pitched slightly high. Standard tuning, according to Musser's specs, is 442. I don't know the reason for this convention, but it is there.
A lot of people interpret slightly sharp as "bright" rather than "out of tune." New musicians may aslo interpret this as "prettier" rather than the "darker" sound many musicians seek.
And, most important, it's much easier to bring a sharp instrument's tuning down, than to bring a flat one up.
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Author: crsbryan
Date: 2010-02-03 15:51
And, I know I've seen this,as well as Selmer and Buffet, video before. But, I have to point out a big marketing error. The only time you hear a clarinet is the play testing after the final assembly. If you want me to get excited about a clarinet, don't play electronica and corporate muzak, play clarinet for me.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2010-02-03 20:34
"A lot of people interpret slightly sharp as "bright""
Blame the colouraturas for the pitch shift. 
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2010-02-10 02:15
This video sure takes all the romanticism out of instrument manufacturing.
It is also a cultural window. The only guy who looked like he was having a good time was the tester.
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Author: Paul Miller
Date: 2010-02-10 04:39
Schwenk and Seggelke do improvements to the Schreiber clarinets, both German and French system. They sent me one for evaluation, and I'll post a review on it soon.
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