 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2010-01-27 14:57
Hi,
For playing outdoors in inclement weather, in your opinion, what would you consider the best non-wood clarinet as to intonation, sound, durability and availability?
After doing, what I consider, a thorough search for about a week of reading past threads, I come up with the Selmer CL300.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Dan
Post Edited (2010-01-27 15:08)
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Author: S.H.J.
Date: 2010-01-27 16:30
Try Ridenour Lyrique 576 BC! It's made of hard rubber, it's simply one of the best in terms of intonation, and for its price, you won't get anything as close to it. Heck, even tripling the price, you won't get anything as close to it. It's designed by Tom Ridenour, one of the most respected designers in the clarinet world. He even services the clarinet himself before shipping it to you! Some in this bboard use it as their "main" horn.
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Bbclarpg.html
You'll get a lot of similar responses from this board.
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Author: William
Date: 2010-01-27 16:44
"For playing outdoors in inclement weather......"
I never play my pro clarinets or saxes for gigs in "inclement" weather. Outdoors is fine if not too chilly or windy, but if it starts to mist, I'm "outta there". Usually, I have an idea about prospective weather conditions and refuse those gigs from the git-go. However, if I had to play in a rainstorm or snow--like the good ole UW-WI college marching band days (yikes), I would definately use Selmer Bundy Resonites--effer, soprano or bass. For being basically "plastic" and mean't for student use, they play quite well with a reasonably good sound--given a good mouthpiece, that is. And, they are virtually indestructable--weather-wise, that is. I would use Legere reeds and not cane. If it's outdoors in "inclement" weather, nobody's going to be listening that seriously anyhow lol.
btw--for my UW-WI Alumni Band Days--where we actually perform pregame and halftime with the Varsity "Kids", I have this really great, old gold colored metal Noblet clarinet which I bought at the Buy & Sell for twenty bucks. Because, really, on the 50 yrd line, it isn't about *sound* but rather, just being **seen**. The sunlight reflecting off this clarinet is priceless :>)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-01-27 17:07
I'd go for Bundies and Vitoes as well. Sound, timbre and all that are less important out there, especially with no roof over the head.
So go for cheap, robust, abundant. Spend the money on a good mouthpiece.
FWIW I got a Mazzeo Bundy for wet outdoors and a Vito VSP for dry outdoors.
--
Ben
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-01-27 17:41
Buffet Greenline are great for outside gigs (and indoors too). Of course the other issue is that you should also look to have hygromatically impervious pads installed such as Valentinos to complete the "outdoor" picture.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2010-01-27 17:45
tictactux:
I agree with cheap, robust and abundant. However, I've read on the klarinet list that the Bundy's have a tendency to go rather sharp in the upper clarion region and I received info from a professional repairman that the vito's have left over molding material on the barrel side of the holes which, in most cases, is not removed because of the time involved resulting in uneven intonation and tone color changes from note to note.
Also, from this same repairman (who happens to be a sponsor on this BB), the Yamaha 20 (in his opinion) had the best intonation, however, it had a tendency to produce a "bright" sound. To him, the CL300 came in second as to intonation and had the most "wood" like clarinet sound.
Yes, I'm sure Ridenour's Lyrique 576 would certainly come out on top, however, the price would certainy be way out of my range.
The CL300 is quite cheap and readily available on that auction site.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2010-01-27 17:53
Paul:
I agree on the Valentino's. However, I've found that the large, open hole pads can be tricky to set and, IMO, not too many repair people can set them correctly.
Case in point: I recently returned a Lyrique 146 because I had to "squeeze" my right hand a little harder to produce a soft ppp note. At first, I thought this was a characteristic of the Valentino pad, but the BB sponsor repairman assured me that the pad simply wasn't set correctly.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-01-27 18:06
If Valentinos are not put in correctly and the leak after a seat has been established, the only recourse is to replace the pad.
There are some Valentino characteristics I don't like, but sealing and being resistant to water and temperature are NOT amongst them.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2010-01-27 19:32
I'm a big fan of the now-discontinued Vito V40 for outdoor/inclement weather playing.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2010-01-27 21:03
prueffer silver throat-my fav outdoor clarinet-plays better than a bundy or vito and has a sweet tone from the hard rubber
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-01-27 21:06
Dan Shusta wrote:
> I agree with cheap, robust and abundant. However, I've read on the
> klarinet list that the Bundy's have a tendency to go rather sharp in the
> upper clarion region and I received info from a professional repairman that
> the vito's have left over molding material on the barrel side of the holes
> which, in most cases, is not removed because of the time involved resulting
> in uneven intonation and tone color changes from note to note.
That may all be true - I haven't seen nor heard it yet.
Per the Bundy going sharp - I had to shorten the barrel to bring it up to A=442, and then the throat notes were out of whack, which I solved by glueing crescent-shaped pieces of cork into the A and Ab toneholes (towards the barrel end) which brought everything back down into an acceptable level. I haven't heard "stick myself out" with sharp clarion notes - it should be easy enough to lip them down a bit if this is really a problem. Might be one indoors, but not out in the wild.
I inspected my few Vitos and none had flashing leftovers in the bore near the tone holes. I agree that this might affect the tone, but again, I haven't seen it yet, nor would I think it would be noticed in the thunderstorm of the brass going fff. Hey, we're talking about a 40$ investment for such a horn.
Waterproof pads - I use my own, homemade ones. Probably the kind no true repair person would ever touch with a 10ft bore reamer, but they're tight and work well.
--
Ben
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2010-01-27 22:26
super20dan: Lucky you! I found out (again through a lot of research), that many so called "hard rubber" clarinets were actually made of ABS resin material. IMO, there is so much misinformation out there...
tictuctax: Did your Vito's have undercut tone holes? The 7214 is advertised as having them, however the repairman I spoke to said he never saw any Vito's with undercut tone holes. I must admit that I was quite surprised that the Lyrique 146 did not have any undercut tone holes. I asked Tom about it and, unfortunately, his explanation was a bit too complicated for me to fully understand. As for pricing, I have found that a decent looking 7214 goes for well over $100 on that auction site.
Is Tom Ridenour the only one making a "true" hard rubber clarinet today? The "Tyro" by Mitchell Lurie is supposed to be of hard rubber but I've had difficulty in actually verifying that.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-01-27 22:47
Dan - the Vitoes I have are all elderly Resotone-3 honkers, probably 7212 or whatever their lesser end of the food chain.
Sold the V40 but got me two wooden VSPs for ~30$ each. :-)
--
Ben
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-01-27 23:15
I really like the Yamaha 250 (the older ones were the 20). Whenever I pick up a students horn to check things out I feel that I could play a gig on it. It plays very well and feels good (both keywork and blowing quality). They are super instruments.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-01-28 13:38
>>Is Tom Ridenour the only one making a "true" hard rubber clarinet >>today?
I think Hanson makes one (or more models) in hard rubber. Not exactly sure, as I never got a reply back from an e-mail I sent them weeks ago.
jeff
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2010-01-28 15:12
The subject of Dan's thread has been of interest to me for several years. I don't play too many outdoor performances with Bb clarinet; however, when I do the weather is often terribly hot and humid. So, I've tried a number of reasonably inexpensive non-wood clarinets -- no Greenline -- to find one that worked well for me. Long story short, I've been happiest with a Silver Throat Deluxe I found and had restored. This was after reading Super20Dan's raves about the Silver Throat on the SOTW Forum. I've found this clarinet to have a better quality of sound than the other non-wood clarinets I tried. However, I must say that I have not tried one of Tom Ridenour's clarinet and I'd like to.
While I have experienced good results with a Silver Throat Deluxe, given how these vintage clarinets can be difficult to find and likely need an overhaul, this may not be the best option if one is looking for an inexpensive non-wood clarinet for outdoor performances.
PS, it's important to know that Pruefer made several different clarinet models. One doubler buddy told me about how he used a Pruefer clarinet when he was in the Army and it's intonation was problematic. Happily, my Silver Throat Deluxe's intonation is good.
Roger
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-01-30 10:49
I use an old Conn "Henkin" where the conditions might not be ideal for a wooden clarinet. Good tone, no intonation problems and built like a brick outhouse. I paid $ A65 for it on that auction site a couple of years back.
Tony F.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2010-01-30 15:46
thanks for the support rog-sadly no one is going to believe our stories about the silver throat -till they actually try one! so if you guys looking for a HUGE sounding outdoor or big band weather resistant clarinet see one on ebay(they usually sell for around 50$tops] take a chance and get one! you will be very pleasntly suprised! -rog- i talked to the guy who used to make them the other day -he said if you replace the leather pads with reg bladder-they play even better.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2010-01-30 23:58
Super20dan, my clarinet & flute repair tech (Jessi at Chuck Levin's in Maryland) worked her magic touch on the Silver Throat last year and it's in top notch performance condition. If you have the means to date the serial numbers please contact me off-forum.
The Best, Roger
http://www.amc.net/RogerMAldridge
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