 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rusty
Date: 2010-01-23 20:33
I`ve owned a Yamaha CSG Custom clarinet now for a year. Anyone else in the world who owns one? Cost AU$4000 (US3600) I just wanted to get other folks opinions of this clarinet as no one where I play has seen or heard one.
I`ve got no major gripes and it is easy to play. Two minor gripes tho` are that the 5CM mothpiece is terrible, at least for me, and the clarinet comes in two cases with multi zips and release buttons. This I find a waste of time.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-01-23 20:53
The case is a piece of crap........won't even stay open in your lap to get pieces in or out.......use another case.
The moutpieces (for me) are also crap. Some on this board have luck with Yamaha mouthpieces but every time I see a positive reference I can't help but think the world has turned upside down.
The clarinets are about the best on the market. They have the most consistant internal pitch outside of a custom German horn costing easily three times as much. They can play very loud and very soft and do both VERY well (don't laugh.......not all horns can).
I am also a HUGE fan of the Lucien Deluxe pads that come with the horn (plastic buttons and all). I have become convinced that the flat shape of these pads give them the ability to seal and reflect as well as cork. The only problem with them is that after a year or so of constant play, they may start to break down and usually around the very buttons that make them great, so it's very hard to see unless you take the key off to look. So if you're having any leaking problems, check this first.
And last but not least, the "A" clarinet is almost the same resistance of the "Bb"..............extraordinary !!!!!
.......................Paul Aviles
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-01-23 20:53
Rusty, if you do a search here, I know there have been a number of favorable comments from CSG owners in this board.
As to mouthpiece and/or case, I suppose it would be easy to fix those problems by replacing them with ones to your liking.
Jeff
edit for typo
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2010-01-25 15:12)
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2010-01-25 01:34
I owe a debt of gratitude to Paul for his comments on his experience with the CSG that lead me to buy a pair over a year ago. They are great instruments. The intonation is excellent across all registers. Although the keywork feels a little different from Buffets, it is similar: very comfortable and very high quality. The response is wonderful--you can really get around on these horns. I got the Hamilton plated keys and regardless of their possible effect on the tone (I actually think they might just improve the sound, though I haven't a good theory why), I love the feel and the look. The CSGs have a very even, clear tone over the entire instrument and can play anywhere from dark-warm-bright...whatever you want to produce.
I don't use the Yamaha 5C mouthpieces although I think they might work with the right reeds. I've played my CSGs with Van Doren B40 Lyre and M30 mouthpieces with excellent results. I did buy shorter tuning barrels as the M30 was a little low (on any clarinet) and I occasionally play in an orchestra where the pitch may get high.
I have the Yamaha attache double-case (with a 3rd party case cover) and it has worked fine for me.
I highly recommend Yamaha CSGs to anyone, particularly if you are looking for an outstanding instrument at an unbeatable price.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2010-01-25 03:53
Where is the best place to purchase the CSG?
Do they have a place like Buffet's Jacksonville where one can try a number of horns?
When I went to the WWBW last, I only was able to try one instrument, and though I was impressed, did not want to purchase a mass produced instrument unless I had a number to try.
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Author: Rusty
Date: 2010-01-25 04:07
Well thank you Paul, Jeff and Bob. I appreciate your comments. No I did`nt want to give the opinion that I was disappointed with the CSG buy. I think it is a fine clarnet but there are some personal changes that I woul prefer.
I tried the B40 Lyre Bob but all the hard rubber ones that I have bought have very quickly started giving off that sulphurised pong. That I can do without right under my nose.
Bob are you using shorter barrel than than the shortest of the two in the case? Where did you get it from as I`m a bit flat too.
Found a Hite Premium works not too bad for me.
Post Edited (2010-01-25 20:34)
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Author: soybean
Date: 2010-01-25 08:05
Most people don't buy a pro clarinet or sax and expect the mouthpiece to be wonderful. Usually, a player buying such a high-end instrument already has a preferred mouthpiece.
~Dan
(Leblanc Bliss, Buffet R13 key of A, Yamaha 250 Bb)
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-01-25 09:38
Hmmm, i've played nothing but hard rubber mouthpieces for the last 30 years and never noticed a funny smell except when i played in direct sunlight (to be avoided!)
Last year i was fortunate enough to meet and hear Michael Collins when he was the concerto soloist for an Auckland Phil concert i was subbing for, and having noticed gold keys on his clarinet i asked him what he was playing. His answer was Yamaha CSG- he told me that he'd played a number of Yamaha instruments over the years and liked them, but never enough to commit to using them as his main instruments. However the CSG horns he tried were so good that he's stuck with them for over a year now.
dn
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-01-25 15:07
Two interesting things brought up concerning mouthpieces.
Many of today's mouthpieces (ie Vandoren 13 Series and most "custom" mouthpieces) tend lower than they did 20 or so years ago...... I think it plays to the claim that they sound "darker." I have also had to use the shortest barrel (53.4mm if I recall correctly) for most mouthpiece that I have.
The vulcanized rubber does have a smell (guess I've just gotten habituated over the years). There are decent alternatives such as Greg Smith's versions in exotic wood (M'Pingo, Rosewood etc). I have also had luck with Pomarico ebony mouthpieces. You might even want to consider crystal. Pomarico has just introduced an opaque, black crystal mouthpiece ($130 US dollars at WWBW). I wish to audition one very soon since they are different from the clear crystals they have had on the market for some time and I've had a wonderful trial of a new Bass facing (Jazz1) they now offer.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2010-01-25 15:47
Rusty,
I've purchased my shorter barrels (53.8 and 54.8 mm) from a couple of places. Try a web search for "CSG tuning barrels" and you should find them easily. They all seem to be the same price.
For me, these barrels are good for occasions where its cold or the reference pitch is high (A442+). As will any other barrels, the two that I have each sound different. However, I think the stock barrels really work/sound best.
Backun also makes ringless cocobolo/grenadilla barrels for the CSG (56.5, 57.5, 58.5 mm). They are more expensive and since they are not shorter than stock barrels, I haven't tried them yet, but I understand they give more focus to the sound. I would expect the sound to be very nice as I had Backun "traditional" barrels on my old Buffets and they really improved the tone.
Bob
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-01-25 18:45
Dr Alan Segal makes some WONDERFUL CSG barrels (I have a "fatboy" model). Even though I get on my high horse about using the barrels that come with the horn, I just can't seem to put the good Dr.s barrel down.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2010-01-25 20:46
Paul,
Could you describe the CSG barrels you have from Dr. Segal (Size, Material, Playing characteristics)?
Thanks,
Bob
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-01-25 21:13
Thanks, Paul.
For the past year or so I received more requests for CSG model barrels than I would have have predicted.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-01-25 21:18
Bob Barnhart said:
"Backun also makes ringless cocobolo/grenadilla barrels for the CSG (56.5, 57.5, 58.5 mm)."
I wonder why Backun is marketing European CSG players who needs to play at 442+ and switch between clarinets in orchestra and pick it up cold out.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-01-26 15:39
Dear Bob,
The barrel I have is an M'Pingo (African Blackwood) barrel that looks for all the world like the Backun "fatboy" (actually looks like a wooden keg....without the rings though).
Alan Segal is truly a fine craftsman of barrels and can manufacture them out a host of different exotic woods. I came by mine via "the back door." There was an "extra" barrel already made for an orchestral player and I caught the e-bay announcement through a posting on this very board.
As for the description of how it plays..........I have been honestly struggling with this myself since I got it. It makes things speak just a wee bit better and has a slightly woodier sound in the chalameau. It does NOT whack me over the head with, "this is different." On the other hand, every time I go to play the stock barrel, it only takes about 10 minutes before I switch back.
I just CANNOT put the Segal barrel down !!!!!!
Understated Elegance............ THAT'S IT !!!!!!
.............................Paul Aviles
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-01-26 15:54
Hmm... come to think of it, are my eyes deceiving me or I see that good Dr. Segal is selling one (1) barrel on ebay...
(maybe I should try it on my composite Clarinet... but I can't cure my suckage merely with a barrel) ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
Post Edited (2010-01-26 15:54)
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-07-03 05:15
Update:
I can now call myself a member of the Yakuza. I got a Hamilton plated CSG, due to an offer that I cannot refuse...
(Paul can claim another convert)
This instrument I love more than many of its contemporaries, and its sheer affordability in the end prevailed. I think we have discussed this instrument to death already, so I shan't elaborate more on it.
I have found that the Yamaha default mouthpiece is awesome on an instrument that's more to the flat side. It is odd, but the Yamaha seems to somehow compensate somewhat. How that is the case, I might never know.
EDIT:
The mouthpiece goes well with that Forte C. When coupled with the Forestone reeds, I suddenly have improved intonation.
Post Edited (2010-07-04 10:55)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2010-07-05 07:56
me = love my CSG's.
Left two fully "pimped out" R-13's, overhauled by the Brannens, and loaded up with Backun bells/barrels.
I mostly play chamber music with strings on clarinet these days...it's a joy to not have to work so hard to match pitch!
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2010-07-07 11:36
I've had mine about six months now and find myself prefering it to my R-13 also, maybe it's the pitch, maybe it's the responsiveness , maybe it's ??? but I like it--- silver plated keys btw, not the garish gold stuff.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-07-07 12:43
I hadn't addressed the Hamilton Plate in this thread so I figure I should throw this in.
My attraction to gold (and the Hamilton plate nickel/gold alloy) is an attempt to stem the hyper oxidation I experience with silver and nickel (by itself) since I have highly acidic finger oils (some of us do, most of us fortunately don't).
Even if you are a normal clarinet player (with respect to acidity that is), the gold is resistant to ALL oxidation, so it would look the same years down the road in a case WITH vulcanized rubber mouthpieces!!!! That is, you NEVER have to polish it (see King Tut's funeral mask).
Granted, the CSG dons a very thin plating of this nickel/gold alloy that I have even begun to rub off after two years or so of brutish playing. Still, I have not started to eat away at the keys yet........... SUCCESS!!!
Also, not that I take any stock in the claim, Yamaha asserts in some of its literature that the Hamilton plating embues a warmer sound to the CSGs. Some of you who have tried both silver and Hamilton plate versions side by side have had experiences that seem to back up this claim.
Personally I would be inclined to replate at a future date with plain ol' gold (as long as it doesn't go up to $2,000 an ounce that is!!!!).
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-07-07 18:06
Speaking of the topic of wear, I am thinking of asking Alastair to craft a clarinet in key of C that uses Palladium plating and made out of Delrin. Currently, I am leaning towards having an instrument that would be dimensionally stable and durable. Like Paul, I am warm to having something that is resistant to oxidation and only requires a gentle wipe on the keys after use to keep in decent shape.
Gold currently is expensive. Patricola actually replied in an email to me that it's not plausible at the moment due to the cost factor to opt gold plating. I guess that's something to think about as well.
(Really loving this CSG of 1/2 year old, although I am feeling that the bell B may benefit from a 3rd party bell with acoustic groove/chamber. Best bang I've gotten for the buck this year. I just wish that Yamaha would make a CSG in the key of C. If this instrument exists, I would grab it at first instance. )
Post Edited (2010-07-07 18:09)
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-04-18 18:27
I'm having issues with C/F and B/E being rather flat on my Bb CSGII in both registers. I noticed that my Bb has a voicing groove in the bell where my A does not.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-04-18 21:28
I'm a bit surprised to hear of the issue in the clarion register. For me it is all in the low E and F which should be correctable with the thumb key (isn't that what the "II" is all about?).
If you are using the stock barrel (I think it's a 56mm?) this may be the problem. I immediately switched to their shortest manufactured barrel (a 53.5 or something like that) and this solved any 'low issues' that I was having.
Of course the "A" clarinet does seem to be even more flat on the low E and F and I swear that I'll take it to someone someday to correct that.
Thanks for pointing out the grooveless "A" bell..........never noticed that before.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-04-18 22:21
Hey Paul,
Yea it is quite strange that those clarion notes are flat. I'm already using the shortest barrel with my m3013. The rest of the instrument is spot on in intonation however the B and C in the clarion are flat. I don't think I should have to use the correction mech for those notes. I think it is really just a bell issue.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-04-19 10:06
Funny, I hope Yamaha is not 'tweaking' the bore slightly in an attempt to make it 'more German.' As we all should know, the bore of the Oehler clarinet is such that tuning is completely even over 'the break,' with the only adjustment being the heavily flattened low E and F notes (corrected by the extra key). The CSG is heralded as a hybrid bore, and because of that (possibly) the low E and F sit a little flat on the first generation.
As long as the addition of the correction key is THE ONLY change to the Second Generation (and third), there should be no problems. Maybe at this point we need to speak with someone at Yamaha to get confirmation on what has and has not been done to the horns from one iteration to the other.
.................Paul Aviles
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