 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: xpedx7342
Date: 2010-01-21 00:25
Hello all. I would like to ask you guys something about the A clarinet. I have never played one before and I will tomorrow, so could you tell me if it "feels" the same, or is it best to consider it a different instrument as in the case of hte E flat?
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-01-21 00:40
almost the same. slightly heavier. keys slightly further apart.
mine is more resistant than my Bb ; I use a slightly softer reed on my A.
it really helps to practice fundamentals (baermann III, etc) on the A clarinet
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-01-21 00:42
Many A clarinets have more resistance feel. That's why most people choose Bb and A together when they are buying a new set because they want a set that feels similar. I play Buffet R-13 Prestige and Festival Bb and it helped me a lot to make them more similar in feel to get a new barrel for the A. In my case it was a Chadash barrel which I like very much. It helped making it a bit more free blowing,it helped also making intonation in the throat notes more easy and it brought a new life to it as the A clarinet is from 94 but the Bb is from 05. One thing you need to do just like with the Eb soprano or just in fact any other individual clarinet is to check which fingerings in the altissimo register works best. On Bb clarinets using the Eb key on the lower joint helps bringing the intonation up but it isn't necessary to use it on most A clarinets. But remember it's much better like in the Nielsen concerto or the Poulenc sonata to find a secure fingering and to have the notes sharp and not flat even if it's sharp by 10 cents.
Post Edited (2010-01-21 00:45)
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2010-01-21 12:09
I think that the difference is small but when you notice it is when you haven't played your A for some time! For some reason the reverse does not seem to be a problem which is why I do almost all my practice on my A clarinet. I don't find using my B flat less frequently a problem. As, I think, Paul Harvey pointed out in one of his books, this also has the advantage that your B flat instrument gets less wear and tear and is less likely to develop a fault when you are about give a performance (which is more likely to be on your B flat).
Vanessa.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-01-21 13:30
Your idea is worthwhile. But I do find that when I'm practicing music for performance - orchestra parts in particular - I'm better off practicing them on the instrument I'm going to use in the performance. Slight differences in resistance, tuning and finger positions between the two instruments can come back to bite me if I've practiced a passage heavily on the wrong instrument. I do often practice études and other material I don't expect to be performing on my A clarinet just to give it some extra use. I think (with no formal proof) that wind instruments, like string instruments, "close up" with disuse and need to be played to keep them in their most free and responsive condition.
Karl
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Author: clarinettist1104
Date: 2010-01-21 13:47
It will play a lot more like a Bb if you think of it as the same instrument, just in a different key. I think that they play a lot more alike if I use the same barrel on each. And an A requires more air, but other than that and a few different pitch tendencies, the A is a nice sounding instrument. Everyone I have ever talked to thinks that an A sounds stuffy. It always sounds stuffy to me, but only when I am playing it. On recordings, it has a nice sweet tone. You say that you're trying one. Are you being lent one, or are you seeing if you want to buy it? If you are buying one, I would recommend getting one as close as possible to your Bb, maybe even the same make and model.
-alex
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-21 14:47
The A clarinet has a slightly smaller bore, assuming the same brand, than does a Bb clarinet. That's the reason they have slightly more resistance than a Bb. I have a set of Buffets that I found Backun barrels and bells to make them "feel" closer to each other. But recently I've been playing a Selmer Signature Bb and my older Buffet A, both with the Backuns. Even though they feel differently sometimes I have to look to see what I'm playing because I'm so comfortable with both of them. Every orchestra player, at least one time in their life, has picked up the wrong horn to their embarrassment.
My suggestion though is to try out as many A clarinets as you can and choose the few you feel tunes and plays the best for you and than pick the one that plays as close to your Bb as possible. After a while you can try to "match" them more closely by changing one or both of the barrels and even a bell if needed.
(The exception to this is, if you're not wild about your Bb, is to choose the best A clarinet regardless of the comparison and match a new Bb to it in the future.)
In any case, remember this, intonation, intonation, intonation. Throat tones and clarion register especially. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: William
Date: 2010-01-21 16:23
I've written many times on this BB that I was lucky to find an A clarinet that "played pretty much the same" as my Bb (both vintage R13's). But your posting--and others--have changed my reasoning a bit. What I now feel is more correct to say is that my A clarinet remains a different instrument in sound quality and tuning, but performs very much the same as my Bb with respect to response and dynamic expression using the same mouthpiece and barrel (stock Buffet 65mm & Chicago Kaspar mpc). This is not so true of my set of Leblanc Concerto's, both of which are excellant instruments but for optimum performance, need different mpc/reed set ups. When you try the A clarinet, I would recommend that one criteria should be how well it plays with your own mouthpiece--very much like your Bb, or not. If it does, consider buying it "on the spot". Further, if it is perfectly in tune, DON'T BUY IT!!! (send it to me--lol) Seriously, good luck.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-01-21 16:39
It feels a little different, but it's not difficult to get used to. It is about an inch and half longer than the Bb and the holes and keys are a bit further apart. It's also slightly more resistant. I found the change in pitch a little disorienting at first--you finger one note and out comes a different one.
The two biggest problems I had initially with switching to A were upper clarion stability (the clarion A kept wanting to make an undertone grunt--this is apparently a problem on a lot of R-13 A's) and negotiating large leaps. Both of these problems can be solved by changing what you do inside your mouth (oral cavity shape/tongue position--the technical term for this is "voicing"), but it takes some experimentation and practice to get the hang of it.
The grunting A problem I solved through a combination of practice and instrument adjustment. The instability (which, incidentally, you can have in a Bb clarinet, too) had to do with the degree of venting from the register key. Basically, if your register key opens to a position that is too far away from the hole, it will make your clarion A less stable (where you have to do more to voice it into an acceptable tone). The solution I came up with was to attach a little piece of self-adhesive cork on top of the register key cork that came with the instrument. This made the register key vent closer to the hole and made everything easier. The beauty of this solution is that as long as you use something that's not too, too sticky, (you don't have to use cork, btw) the adjustment is reversible, because all you have to do is remove the thing when you're done (I assume you're playing on your school's instrument or a rental).
Other people have solved this problem by having a technician file down the register key vent tube inside the clarinet, but that's obviously a lot more invasive, it's basically irreversible (outside of replacing the tube itself), and it supposedly comes with other potentially unpleasant side effects.
Big slurred leaps take some adjustment in voicing because of the difference in resistance characteristics of the A clarinet. It just takes practice.
One thing I've found to be easier on the A clarinet, though--jumping from the upper clarion to the altissimo register is actually a little easier than on the Bb (or at least I found this to be the case with my instruments).
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-01-21 17:17
An undertone (or "grunt") particularly on the A5 is caused by a number of factors:
1. airflow not fast enough (high tongue position)
2. improper diaphragm support
3. tension in the throat
4. improper embouchure development
5. incorrect mouthpiece/reed resistance
This is also an especially common problem with Buffet A clarinets from about 160xxx (1975) on, when the register vent tube was lengthened. A common fix on Buffet A clarinets is to shorten the register vent tube by approximately .020" .
Changing the register vent tube on the Buffet R-13 A clarinets is pretty routine, and many players find the difference to be substantial.
Unfortunately, over the years, Buffet has played "register vent tube roulette" on its R-13 A clarinets. The length of the vent tube has NOT been the same, especially in the clarinets produced from the 60's, 70's, and 80's.
As one repair tech jokingly told me: "It's almost as if they used whatever they had lying around at the time."
Case in point: Of my 4 R-13 A clarinets, two are fairly close in serial number: 237xxx (1983) and 274xxx (1985). However the original vent tubes are totally different lengths. The 237xxx was longer than the the 274xxx.
The vent tube on the 237xxx was since changed to a shorter length. The clarinet is much freer blowing and the slight undertones have totally disappeared.
It now feels identical to my other 3 R-13 A clarinets (86xxx, 162xxx, 274xxx) ...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-01-21 17:24
GBK,
What (if any) effects have you noticed with the 'pinch' throat Bb on your Buffet following the shortening of the register vent tube?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-01-21 17:47
The shorter vent tube provided less resistance and a slightly clearer sounding "pinch" throat Bb. I do still use resonance fingerings when possible, or the side Bb if the passage permits.
However, due to the slight decrease in resistance one has to be careful not to overblow the Bb, for it now does not need the same air speed as before.
...GBK
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-01-21 17:52
GBK wrote:
> Case in point: Of my 4 R-13 A clarinets, two are fairly close
> in serial number: 237xxx (1983) and 274xxx (1985).
I'll bite. What exactly do you do with 4 A clarinets?
:-)
Karl
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-01-21 18:25
Thanks, GBK. Any effect on intonation of the 'pinch' Bb? And what was Buffet's rationale for having elongated the tube in the first place? I believe there was once a long and involved thread on this topic of international importance, but I'm too lazy to look it up..... ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-01-21 19:24
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> Thanks, GBK. Any effect on intonation of the 'pinch' Bb?
Off hand, without stopping to measure it exactly with a tuner, I would say that the pitch of the throat Bb seemed higher.
However, one thing to be aware of is the tradeoff of shortening the register tube is that the 12ths may become slightly wider.
...GBK
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-21 22:33
There are different opinions of what the length of the tube in an A clarinet should be. I've heard some people prefer a shorter tube, usually associated with a Bb clarinet and some think it should be a longer tube, usually associated with the A clarinet. People forget that it also depends on the diameter of to tube as well.
I went to Guy Chadash several years ago to have him move the tube up higher on my older Buffet A clarinet. I was having trouble with my throat tone Bb being sharp and always had to put lots of fingers down to play it because the A note was just fine. Once he moved it up higher on the clarinet he made me a new tube. The first one he made for me, to his specs, my throat Bb now played very flat, at least it wasn't sharp any more. After about half an hour playing around with the diameter of the tube he got it perfect for me. He kept opening it a little bit at a time. He may have changed the length a bit as well, it was a long time ago. In any case, it's the combination of both that gives the best result. If you're having a problem with the undertone or intonation I always suggest that you go to someone that has several different tubes in stock and try several different ones. It's easy for a tech to change them in a few seconds. If all else fails. go to someone like Chadash to make you one to fit your clarinet. There are several people that can do that. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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