 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-01-03 21:04
When did Buffet start plating their keywork on R13s?
Is it safe to steel wool the keys on my 1961 Buffet?
Bob Phillips
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-03 21:15
If the keys are unplated and you're using a fine grade steel wool, then you won't have any problem.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-01-03 22:56
My 1963 R13 is plated. Safest way to tell is to try and clean one key with brasso or similar polish,. A german silver key should rapidly start to respond and give a pretty good shine. Nickel plate really needs a hard buff to restore a shine if at all tarnished.
A 0000 grade steel wool is fine for initial clean of unplated keys.
If at all unsure test out on a hidden part of one key first.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2010-01-03 23:00
I don't know if it is just me, but I have two similar clarinets (one nickel keys and one silver keys) and can tell them apart while I am playing them. When I get a little perspiration on my fingers, the silver gets slippery and the nickel does not.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-04 15:50
I've found the opposite - nickel plating is slippery whereas silver plated and unplated (nickel silver) keys offer more grip when my hands are wet.
You can usually tell what the plating is on heavily tarnished keys - nickel plate turns dull grey and is difficult to get shiny, silver turns all shades from yellow right down to blue-black and can be polished up to a bright shine relatively easily with silver polish (or with just a polishing cloth on light tarnish), and unplated nickel silver will be dull yellow through to orange, red or brown (and also green due to the copper content) and can also be polished to a bright shine fairly easily with metal polish.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2010-01-04 19:30
Why is nickel plating ever used? I agree with others who have said that it is more slippery than silver. Nickel doesn't look nearly as nice when fresh: silver has an appealing whiteness, whereas nickel has a cheap-looking glitz with no depth to it. And once tarnished, we've heard it's harder to clean. Finally, I believe it is attacked more easily by skin acidity. I've seen a lot of Buffets with the plating missing on e.g. the LH Gsharp key, but these have all been nickel models. So is there ever an advantage? I presume it must be a little cheaper than silver, but what a perfect example of false economy. On the other hand, solid nickel silver keys as in the older instruments look wonderful. Makers ought to offer them on their top models.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-01-04 20:03
I agree with John, solid nickel (as long as it is top quality) is by far the best finish for tactile playing. What is put under the plate of modern instruments is often much lower grade, even brass on the cheaper instruments.
Over 30 years ago I raised exactly this question when visiting Leblanc in Paris. The senior Leblanc member there totally agreed with this view also but said that the marketing side were insistent that the instruments be plated (for appearance). My 50 year old pair are raw nickel silver and still lovely to the touch.
In the UK the plating of professional instruments was virtually always silver (although I'm told that Brymer preferred nickel or even chrome and his early 1010s were definately a very hard nickel or chrome finish).
I also understand that Nickel plate was alledgedly preferred to silver in the USA for many years, I have no idea why.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-04 22:38
John,
Nickel plate is usually applied as a flash (less than 5 microns thick) - like an undercoat for silver to be plated onto as it provides a very smooth surface (microscopically/molecularly speaking) for the silver to adhere to whereas copper is pretty rough in comparison.
Silver plate is applied thickly in comparison to nickel - usually between 10 and 25 microns, though some makers only apply between 5 and 10 microns of silver. Gold plate is usually applied over silver, but is usually up to 3 microns thick.
I think Buffet keywork is silver plated straight onto the copper flashed keywork without a nickel flash in between.
But plating in general is applied to protect the base metal against wear and oxidisation - you'll see how quickly polished nickel silver loses its shine in comparison to plated keywork, and it can also have a smell (like brass) that some players won't like.
Buffet bassoons have chrome plated keywork which is even more slippery than nickel, though on bassoon with so much sliding around it's probably best the keywork is plated with such a smooth metal as chrome.
Chrome plate has a blue tinge to it (you've seen what chrome plated bathtaps and car fittings look like) and nickel plate is more yellow in comparison to chrome plate. Silver plate has more class to its appearance than either chrome or nicke plate that both look rather cheap in comparison.
As nickel and chrome plate is much harder than silver, they're hard wearing and unforgiving on tools and will blunt reamers, drills and files very quickly. Silver is like cheese in comparison and can be shaved with a sharp scalpel (which will just skate across chrome or nickel plate).
The problem with nickel and chrome plate is if the adhesion to the base metal or copper flash isn't great, they can break and flake or peel off if the keywork gets bent.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2010-01-05 07:15
Chris,
Thanks for the long expert reply. I agree nickel silver tarnishes - although my experience is that it can still be pretty shiny after even a year. I don't think polishing your keys every so often is a high price to pay for such a nice finish: even the start of tarnishing gives the metal a kind of smoky tint that I find quite attractive. And I find it great to know that there's no plating to wear out. Sometimes you see vintage instruments that have been stripped down and plated. The people who do this doubtless think it's an improvement, but to me it's an act of vandalism to bury that beautiful metal. The metal that appears when modern keys lose their plating seems less beautiful - do you know what's changed in terms of composition of the alloy, and whether it was done to save money or to change strength/weight etc.?
Lastly, a simple nickel plate question. You say it's done thin, which would explain why sweat can eat it away - so why not do nickel plate as thick as silver, to make it last?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-05 07:39
If you plate nickel to 25 microns it'll be tough going for the finishers when it comes to fitting the keywork after it's been plated - they will have to fraise the ends back to fit the key barrels between pillars and ream the insides out so the screws fit, and also tapping threads for adjusting screws won't be easy with a thick layer of nickel due to its hardness and the consequent blunting effect it has on cutting tools.
The only way to fit thickly applied nickel plate is to grind the nickel off the ends of the key barrels before fraising back, though this can go horribly wrong as once the nickel gets ground away, the base metal being very soft by comparison can be ground away very quickly if you're pushing too hard against the grinding wheel (like the feeling you get when drivng a turbo diesel car - if you're accelerating in too high a gear it'll pick up speed slowly and then there'll be a sudden burst of power once you reach 2000rpm).
I worked on a Leblanc alto clarinet a while back when the owner wanted the side Eb/Bb touchpiece made to point straight down (like on German clarinets) - the nickel plate was so thick on it and it took ages to paper through the nickel (files would just skate on the nickel without doing anything so I used emery paper instead) before I cound see the copper flash and then the nickel silver base metal. I only expected the nickel to be a thin coating, but it must have been around 25 microns.
Even refitting my Yamaha's forked Eb/Bb mechanism took some doing, and I specified 10 microns maximum on that - but if you ask for a specific thickness of plate, the platers will usually put a minimum of what you specify, so it could be twice as thick as you want.
Better to have thicker plate than for it to be too thin, so if you ask for 25 microns of silver, 25 microns will be the minimum thickness so you could end up with over 30 microns in someplaces. Likewise with nickel or copper flash or gold plate - if you want 3 microns that'll be the minimum thickness that's applied and you may end up with it being over 5 microns on the free ends of the keys.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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