 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JLL
Date: 2009-12-30 20:16
I have in the past 2 weeks I have changed from 'anchor tonguing' to 'tip to tip' tonguing after anchor tonguing for 30+ yrs. I really like the more open sound I am getting and the pitch is more consistent - however - I am having teribble difficulty with getting the altissimo notes above high D to sound accurately. Every time I try to tongue the high E the pitch jumps to the higher G. I can tongue the high E just fine with anchor tongue but when I try to use tip to tip it just will not stay on the E. I have tried to move my tongue very slowly from the anchor position while I am holding the high E but as soon as I get it slightly up from tucked under my lower lip the note jumps again to G. Of course I am not getting notes worth listening to above the high E - just mostly squeaks. I have tried going up one reed size (to a 4 ) but that only slightly helped. Do you think my tongue just might be too long to tongue the higher notes with tip to tip. I am discouraged and am hoping for some insight into what the problem might be.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2009-12-30 20:29
It could be your voicing in the notes, not necessarily the front of the tongue. Others on the board might be of some help, since I'm not very good at explaining things clearly haha.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-30 22:00
Yes, voicing.
My guess is that you're concentrating on the tip and letting the back of the tongue sag down into your throat (as if you were saying "AHHHHH").
Think the sound "EEEEE" or even try the cat "HSSSSSS" sound and keep your tongue in that position particularly in the altissimo but I'd say all the time really.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: salzo
Date: 2009-12-31 01:19
Try playing double lip- Playing double lip 'forces"(I hate using that word when discussing clarinet playing) to open the back of your mouth. Also, it is possible that your embochure is not set properly due to the new tonguing method you are using. Even if you do not adopt a double lip permanently, it could help you recognize where the problem is.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-12-31 02:41
Can you produce an E (and higher) with no tongue release at all (just a breath "attack")? If not, then the contact method isn't the problem, it's the whole position of your tongue. Moving from anchoring to contacting the reed tip with the tongue tip will tend to lower the middle part of your tongue, which is often most destructive in the altissimo register. Maybe using the concept of an eeeeee sound inside your mouth may help get back to a better tongue shape for the altissimo notes. Experiment without tonguing at all to find and stabilize each note. Try playing bugle calls (you can do this without tonguing) by playing the upper harmonics as deliberate squeaks with each standard fingering. Being able to produce the right harmonic at will may give you more control of the pitch when you play in a more realistic musical context. If you can control the altissimo register without any tongue release at all, then go back and try to lightly hold and then release each note using the new position of your tongue tip.
I very much doubt that it's a problem of tongue length. Mostly, I doubt, if it were, that you'd be able to tongue comfortably anywhere on the instrument. I don't think a problem like that would only affect one register.
Karl
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Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-12-31 07:29
I am not familiar with the terms "anchor" and "tip-to-tip" tongueing. Could someone explain to me what they represent?
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2009-12-31 13:14
I'm called to work with the clarinet sections of local high schools. Below is an exercise I use in teaching them the importance of the tongue's position in altissimo notes. (I can't take credit for it, for Krug's "Clarinet Doctor" informed it.)
Oral cavity: Selects the register of the clarinet.
Exercise: Whistle a low note, medium note and a high note. Do this 3 times. On the third time, notice where the BACK of the tongue is when whistling the high note. This is where the BACK of the tongue needs to be to get the high notes.
Exercise: play open G (tongued), then drop back of tongue and play open G again (tongued), getting a D. (May need to SLIGHTLY jut lower lip.)
Presented like this, it is of course an oversimplication, but a useful first step in teaching.
vJoe
amateur
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Author: TianL
Date: 2009-12-31 19:25
Hi,
I've also changed from anchor tonguing to tip-to-tip tonguing and I understand exactly your frustration. I think there are three things when people like us do tip-to-tip tonguing in the altissimos that are causing this issue.
One is that when you tongue the high notes with anchoring tonguing, your throat automatically opens up. This is because when your tongue is lower, it's very easy to open up the throat. However, when you do tip-to-tip, since your tongue is now back and high (so your tip of the tongue can get to the reed), you have to consciously LIFT your soft palate to actually keep your throat open. (Actually, you should do that all the time, but it won't affect you that much for other things if you don't do it).
Secondly, when you do anchor tonguing on the high notes, it's quite easy to keep the entire tongue stable and steady. However, for tip-to-tip, as you are tonguing, you have to ONLY move the tip of the tongue, and this is especially hard for the high notes, because at the same time, you have to keep your soft palate lifted, and keep the back of your tongue not moved at all. Try it, you will find that when you are moving the tip of your tongue, your back of the tongue also moves with it. This will change the air stream and it is the reason that you cannot get the high notes come out (or not come out smoothly).
Lastly, your tip of the tongue may not be lightly enough just yet. Only maybe 3 cells of your tip of the tongue needs to touch the 3 cells on the tip of the reed. This is especially important for the high notes. If it's not light enough, the high notes will not come out. Practice with slow legato tonguing with the high notes everyday and eventually you will get it. Also, for the high notes, experiment with just lift the tip of the tongue a little higher and let a little more of the backside tip of the tongue touch the reed. That might help a bit.
Basically, you will know at the time that you've actually successfully switched from anchoring tongue, because when you actually did that, you won't know how to do anchoring tongue anymore (at least that's what happened to me - I cannot do anchoring tonguing anymore though I had been doing it for years). The entire tongue position is different.
Good luck! I think it's not easy, but well worth the effort.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-31 20:16
Anchor = tip of the tongue positioned against the back of the lower teeth (anchored in place) while the larger area of the tongue dampens the reed in between articulations.
Tip-to-tip = tip (or close approximation in most cases) of the tongue being what comes in contact with the reed at a point fairly close (but usually not right on the edge) of the reed.
The later is universally accepted as the most efficient and controllable, however through some discussion on this very board it is evident that some individuals can use anchor tonguing with no serious impediments to their technique.
Caveat - If you're a teacher, please DO NOT teach the anchor method.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2010-01-02 10:02
I changed from anchor to tip-to-tip tonguing about 6 months ago, I took me about 3 months before it became second nature especially with altissimo. Much of what others have said was my experience - my 2 cents is that you need a bit more time to adapt and feel confident with it.
Tony
Post Edited (2010-01-02 10:03)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-02 15:29
I find it interesting that you get a high G instead of a high A which is a normal fingering for the A. The high E and A are fingered the same way but one has to voice higher on the E to get the A, not a G. In any case, there are any number of reasons you could having this problem and one could be that your tongue is too long, or to large in back. You have to make adjustments for that as many of us have had to do. Take a look at my website and check out the clarinet article page, I have several articles on tonguing that you might find helpful, I don't want to post them all on this, it's to many pages. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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