 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2009-12-29 21:23
I know that Yamaha makes, or has made , boehm system clarinets with a german bore size. Roland Dorfler makes them too on request, I think. Rossi is also making one. I just wonder if anybody has tried any or these instruments and what they think of them.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-30 02:22
Yamaha still makes the "reform Boehm" as well as the full Oehler. I find their Boehms marketed here in the States amongst the best and doubt that their other products would be any different even though I've never tried one (but would REALY like to!!!).
For what it's worth, at the end of Karl Leister's tenure with the Berliner Philharmoniker, he endorsed the Yamaha clarinets over the much lauded Wurlitzers.......... I think there may have been a "falling out" with Wurlitzer at the time but there must have been enough quality from Yamaha to warrant such high praise.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2009-12-30 03:53
A few years ago, I tried a pair of the Yamaha YCL-845/856 "Reform-Boehm" clarinets. Although the workmanship was excellent, for me they played out of tune and did not possess the tone I expected. At the time I think I was playing a Fobes CF or Vandoren M13-Lyre mouthpiece and this may have prevented them from playing as well as if I had used a German-design mouthpiece with them (a strategy that is recommended for the Wurlitzer Reform-Boehm instruments).
I think they are still making the instruments, but I expect you could try them only on special order (as I did), paying shipping and handling fees.
There is at least one thread here on the board dealing with these instruments:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=169932&t=169932
I find that the Yamaha CSGs are much more approachable and possess many of the qualities I expected from a Reform-Boehm: excellent intonation, great response, and a warmer (more German?) tone quality.
Good luck!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-30 14:27
The original post is from Germany. I assume the German mouthpiece is NOT a problem.
Yes, indeed the German bore instruments REQUIRE a German "sized" mouthpiece. They are smaller and generate an entirely different generating pitch. This difference is the problem with trying to tune them with a Boehm designed mouthpiece........the notes close to the top of the clarinet will be VERY high and the notes as you get further down will be out of tune with themselves.
I agree that the CSG is a stupendous BOEHM clarinet but they DO NOT in any way sound German (despite the hybridization of the bore).
I have strongly feel that the mouthpiece is a major contributor to the physics of the German sound (along with the accomanying smaller sized reeds of course).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-12-30 15:08
I have not seen a Reform Boehm Yamaha for a while. I believe that they don't sell a lot, so you might have to order them special. The German system clarinets are here and there.
To the original post- From what I have seen, just about all companies in Germany and Austria that make German system clarinets also make at least one model of Reform Boehm or German Boehm instruments.
Reform Boehm instruments use a German/Austrian mouthpiece, and there are some extra mechanisms for pitch on the instrument.
German Boehm instruments use a "Normal French" mouthpiece and have the exact same kind of keywork as a French Boehm clarinet.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-30 15:19
The Yamaha German Boehms use a German mouthpiece.
I've only seen photos of a true Yamaha Reform Boehm which was posted on here a while back, and that was made to special order. The barrel had a socket at the top and a tenon at the lower end - the top joint likewise had a socket at the top and the middle tenon (like the lower joint), so each section (apart from the bell) had a tenon at the lower end.
Yamaha don't make true Reform Boehms as standard - their German Boehms (YCL-856/846) have standard Boehm system keywork (plus the doubled F/C key and throat Bb mechanism), not true Reform Boehm system keywork as that has a different tonehole layout for the LH fingers (with the ring/vent mechanism for LH3).
The CSG is a French bore instrument but has the body joint proportions of German instruments - most obviously the long top joint and short barrel, and uses a standard French style mouthpiece.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-12-30 18:49
Any clarinet with a German bore will play out of tune with a French style mouthpiece. Every Reform Boehm, or even theoretically French bore Boehm I've played from a German maker (or Yamaha) has, FOR ME, been out of tune, lacked resonance, had extremely high resistance and produced only one type of sound.
That's a pity, because the keywork and response of these instruments is in a higher league than any French style clarinet I've played. I still remember a Wurlitzer Boehm I tried years ago, which, technically, almost played itself.
Steve Fox makes clarinets with Boehm keywork and a German bore and supplies Vandoren mouthpieces which he has reworked to play in tune. I've tried them, but they're not for me.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-30 22:19
Ken,
You make a very interesting point about the "one sound." I played Oehler System Wurlitzers for 12 years and loved them to death. The problem (perhaps socialized from my formative years) was that the INCREDIBLY consistant sound and pitch was almost nauseating in its unwavering nature!! I realize that I am to be stuck playing Boehm the rest of my days despite all their flaws.
Of course I hope and pray that Teutonic clarinet players will NEVER give them up. No other clarinet sounds so perfect in a group of mixed winds.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Lam
Date: 2009-12-31 21:05
Hi Paul,
are your Oehler Wurlitzers "low pitch instrument" that tuned to 440 or 442 Hz?
By the way, in my understanding, those reform-boehm clarinet has its own distinct design in bore(or shape inside), which is different than the standard German system clarinet. However, some makers are now making Boehm clarinet with the real "German bore" now, such as Schwenk and Seggelke and . Thats the reason when ordering mouthpieces, the makers ask you to indicate whether it is for German bore, Vienna bore, or for Reform Boehm.
Post Edited (2012-03-10 12:11)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-31 21:45
Reform Boehms have an even longer cylindrical section bore than German/Oehler systems - I think it's cylindrical right down to the lowest tenon, hence the open bell vent.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-01-01 03:31
Mine were closer to 445.
They're back in Deutschland.........making beautiful music I hope.
....................Paul Aviles
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