 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-12-16 04:18
So it appears we're going to be playing Capriccio Espagnol. I'm not the soloist, but I'm 2nd chair, which means if she doesn't show up, I have to play it.
I'm having some troubles with the piece. What are the best fingerings for all the F# trills? It's a key of 5 sharps on Bb clarinet. I'm not allowed to use an A clarinet for this (Though, I don't think anyone would notice due to the very little difference in appearance. Plus I don't have one)
So... Trills from Clarion F# to G#. Best idea? Then there's the trills from D# to E. And then the jumps from C# to D#. And then again, G# to A#.
All I can say is that I'm praying for the 1st chair girl. I wouldn't blame her if she didn't show up.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-12-16 04:23
Learn the solo part.
It's a standard orchestral work which you will most likely play again.
The Peter Hadcock book has some excellent commentary which will help you.
...GBK
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-12-16 04:24
>Umm... why wouldn't she show up? Is this something that happens often in your orchestra?
Guaranteed, she's going to show up, but she might not even want to consider showing due to the difficulty expected of the clarinet solo. It all depends on her.
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2009-12-16 05:49
Why are you not allowed to play with an A clarinet? (Besides the fact that you do not own one, just like me)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-16 13:41
I only know this part only in "written C" or as it should appear for "A" clarinet. Learning in "written B" sounds just cruel to me and certainly not what you'll see later in your career.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-16 14:52
You're not "allowed" to play it on an A clarinet? I've never heard of anything like that. I pity the first player having to do it on a Bb clarinet. There is no easy way to do those trills and other passages on a Bb clarinet, it's just plain stupid. Beg, borrow, or, no don't steal one but you both need to get an A clarinet for this. The orchestra you play in should help you both get one. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: salzo
Date: 2009-12-16 15:41
Who would know the difference if you play it on A? Bottom line is it has to sound good. If anything, the "difference" between playing it on A and Bb, is one will sound bad, and one will sound good.
"Boy that sounds like crap, but he did it on the Bb so everything is hunky dory."
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-16 16:58
Oh, there are worse things than having to play 2 movements of Capriccio Espagnol in B Major. When I played in youth symphony, I didn't have an A clarinet, either, so practically everything we played had 4-5 sharps in the key. You get used to it after a while. Practicing your B Major scales and arpeggios helps a lot.
You can do it on Bb. It'll be a good learning experience for you, and it will give you a chance to try out some useful fingering tricks. Here are my suggestions:
For the F#-G# trill, finger the F#, but trill the index finger of your left hand. Alternatively, you can finger the F#, but trill the G# key in your left hand (while keeping your right hand middle finger down).
For the D#-E trill, you can hold down the D# key with your pinky and simply trill your ring finger. (Not a great trill, but this might help clean it up a little.)
For a clarion C#-D# trill, just hold the C# fingering in the left hand and trill the right hand D# key.
For a clarion G#-A# trill, hold the G# fingering and trill the left hand index finger.
Some other "tricks" you might find useful are:
You can use the 1 & 1 Bb fingering (TR x o o | x o o) to play A#'s whenever it helps you (where the little triplet figures appear near the end of the last movement is one good place to use this fingering--another good place is at the very beginning where you have A#'s preceded by E's). You can also use 1 & 2 (use the 2nd finger of the RH instead of the 1st), which might work better for some passages in this key (where you have clarion F#'s, for instance).
Use the LH sliver key for A#'s and D#'s whenever you can, so as to keep all the movement in one hand. Keeping all the motion in one hand helps a lot--it also helps to use RH C#'s whenever practical, in order to do the same sort of thing with your right hand.
For B-C# trill in the upper clarion, hold the B fingering and trill the third (from the bottom) RH side key. To play the B-C# 16th note pattern at the beginning of the piece, you can play the C# by holding the B fingering and adding the throat G# key (a perfectly "legitimate" fingering which keeps you from having to jump into the altissimo register and do finger flips).
For the B-C# trill in the lower clarion, hold the B fingering with one pinky and trill the C# key with the other.
For the chalumeau F#-G# trills in the last movement, finger the side key F# and trill the throat G# key.
For the throat A#-B natural trill in the last movement, finger the standard A#/Bb fingering and trill the third (from the bottom) side key.
In bar 115 of the last movement, switch pinkies on the B natural to prepare for bar 116 without sliding. (Similarly, switch pinkies between the two B's in bar 111.)
Another idea that just occurred to me is that in the triplet figure in bar 136 (letter V) of the last movement (starts on altissimo D#), you can probably hold down the RH pinky on the Ab/Eb key through the whole figure. Some other variations on this you might find useful are to play the high D# like a high clarion C with the throat A key added and to play the F# with the RH ring finger instead of the middle finger. Try these and see if they make the passage any smoother to play--they might make it easier to keep your fingers coordinated, because they require you to make fewer independent finger motions. The "throat A" D# takes a lot of air to get it to speak properly, so it might actually cause more problems than it solves, but there's no harm in trying it, obviously.
Hope this helps.
Post Edited (2009-12-16 18:33)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-16 20:50
I agree with mrn, sure it can be done, almost anything can if you're good enough but I also agree with salvo even more when he said "Boy that sounds like crap, but he did it on the Bb so everything is hunky dory." ESP
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Author: marcia
Date: 2009-12-16 21:05
>I'm not allowed to use an A clarinet for this
I find it pretty outrageous, and presmumptuous that somone should dictate that to you. There have been times in my orchestra "career" where I have played on "the other instrument" because I know I can do a better job that way. And when the part is actually written fot the "A" (as in the Capriccio) I don't think you should have any hesitation in doing all you can to procure an "A" and use it where appropriate. Do you have access to the "A" part?
(Though, I don't think anyone would notice due to the very little difference in appearance.
You're right about that!
Plus I don't have one)
As above....beg, borrow......
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-12-16 22:02
I don't have access to the A part. Dare I say it, this is for UIL. You can only play on the instrument you auditioned for. We auditioned for Bb clarinet, which means we can only play Bb. Not A.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-12-16 22:11
Ordinarily you don't audition for Bb clarinet or A clarinet, you just audition for clarinet. Have you asked the music director whether you could use A clarinets if the were available? I think (hope) you've misunderstood the orchestra's intent, and you might be pleasantly surprised at the answer if you ask the question.
Karl
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-12-16 23:58
I'm not familiar with that UIL rule.
Can you be more specific - is this for a band transcription or an orchestra.?
Which specific UIL contest are you referring to?
Is this a UIL band contest, or a UIL orchestra Contest?
For all the UIL contests I'm familiary with "A" anb "Bb" are considered the same instrument.
Cant be all-state orchestra, auditions are not completed yet.
Methinks someone is feeding you a load of something smelly.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2009-12-17 01:18
moolatte wrote:
> I don't have access to the A part.
A little search of Capriccio Espagnol in Wikipedia links you to scores of public domain sheet music.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-17 02:06
pewd wrote:
> For all the UIL contests I'm familiary with "A" anb "Bb" are
> considered the same instrument.
That's what I thought, too. I don't think the UIL people are such sticklers, anyway. When my HS Orchestra went to UIL Orchestra, we had a humpback whale part in one of our pieces, and they gave us no problems (I'm not making this up). I'm not even sure the piece was on the prescribed music list--I know it's not on the current one. They will sometimes let you play stuff that's not on the list, though, if you get approval in advance, which is probably what our orchestra director did.
If you or your director are concerned about this, and you would like to use A clarinets for the contest (which I would still recommend, notwithstanding my previous post), you or your director should write to the UIL in Austin and ask them to give you an official interpretation of the rules (or, if not an official interpretation, at least an advisory opinion). I did that once myself when I was in high school and needed clarification on something. I thought the UIL people were very cooperative and helpful.
If that approach doesn't work for you, or you can't manage to get a hold of an A clarinet, though, you can still play it on Bb. It's only the first and last movements that weren't written for Bb (at least in the 1st clarinet part; 2nd's another story), and all the really smooth legato solo runs were written for Bb to begin with. It looks scary having all those sharps in the key signature, but having read through it myself, I don't think it's quite as bad as it looks. You just have to plan what you're going to do a little bit more than usual and perhaps practice a bit more. It's better on the A and will sound better on the A, of course, but if you have to do it on the Bb, it's not entirely impractical.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-12-17 02:11
UIL, huh?
Reminds me of the JCAHO, the FDA, and the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission and PA Liquor control board.
Those who can ....do....and those who can not, make rules to mess up those who can. (paraphrased)
Probably you could play it on an A, and NO ONE, including the Lord High Administrators would notice.
At this point, I would read Hadcock and spend more time deciding on how to make it dance-like (or single vs. double trill, etc)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-12-17 02:11)
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Author: marcia
Date: 2009-12-17 05:32
>You can only play on the instrument you auditioned for. We auditioned for >Bb clarinet, which means we can only play Bb. Not A.
Do you know that for certain sure, or is it an assumption on your part?? I have not heard of anything like that ever! Being a clarinetist in an orchestra means having both "A" and "Bb" parts to deal with.
Marcia
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-12-17 17:11
If you played Bb Trumpet for the audition and part called for a Trumpet in C, as is often the case in symphonic music, do you think you would not be permitted to use a C trumpet?
(Using voice of Cleveland on the Family Guy show) "That's just wronnnggg."
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: fermata_chick
Date: 2009-12-27 21:51
I'm the first chair girl for the AAAAA UIL orchestra in the Midland/Odessa area. Capriccio Espagnol is not nearly as difficult as you make it seem. I think it is a really fun peice to play and I look forward to performing it. I will show up; I am most definatly not the type of person that backs down because something is a little challenging, in fact, I enjoy challenge which is one of the reasons I auditioned with TMEA as well as the ATSSB. The other reason is because I have to play the excerpt from Capriccio Espagnol for my Juilliard audition; that is why I am choosing the orchesta concert over the ATSSB concert, which are held on the same weekend. I am playing the part on Bb because thats how I have learned the part already and because I do not have access to an A clarinet or the music. As for not being allowed to use the A clarinet, I am not aware of any rule stating that we are not allowed to use them. If I get ahold of one and I have the music, I will definatly take advantage of the oppurtunity and use the A clarinet.
LNFG
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-28 00:14
fermata_chick wrote:
> I'm the first chair girl for the AAAAA UIL orchestra in the
> Midland/Odessa area.
So how does that work? When I was in high school (about 20 years ago), we had the UIL contest our *school's* orchestra went to, but what you're talking about sounds an awful lot like TMEA Region Orchestra, but a separate competition.
Back in my day, there was only one All Region/All State competition, TMEA (although there were separate TMEA competitions for band and orchestra). We didn't have separate 5A, 4A, and ATSSB competitions. This UIL competition you're describing, though, sounds like something separate from those, though. Am I right?
(I also grew up in the Houston area [Clements HS in Sugar Land], so I imagine things may be different in your part of the state, too.)
Just curious.
Post Edited (2009-12-28 00:17)
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Author: fermata_chick
Date: 2009-12-28 01:30
There are three different region bands that a band student can try out for. Usually a band student stays within their size school competition. I am from a AA school so I audition with the ATSSB students which are made up of A, AA, and AAA schools. For TMEA, a student can audition in AAAA or AAAAA depending on the size of their school. I know of a few students in my region that audition with the AAAAA band students as well as ATSSB (I am one of them). You may audition for both, however, you must determine during the registration period which division you will advance to Area in. As for TMEA orchestra, I have no idea how the strings go about the audition process but I imagine it is somewhat like the band auditions. The wind instruments for the orchestra are the top chairs that make the All-region Band.
Small school bands (ATSSB) don’t have orchestras so we only do All-region band; however, in my opinion, ATSSB auditions are much more challenging than TMEA auditions in my region. The Area auditions, on the other hand, are pretty cut thought for TMEA from what I understand. ATSSB Area is pretty much the same difficulty as All-region and the state level is a lot tougher, but the ATSSB All-State bands are amazing and so much fun to play in (at least for the past three years that I have played in them).
Hope this helps you understand better!
LNFG
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-12-28 04:47
Hah. Awesome. You come here too.
Interesting.
And thank you very much for accepting to play it. I don't feel like practicing it anymore. Though I'm not too happy 1st part's mainly solos, which means I'll hardly play. Even the 2nd part has something under the solo. :-/
also, I know I made it sound like the solo was traumatically hard, but I posted this after only playing the first time for 10 minutes. Since then, I looked at it a little more, and it's a pretty easy solo.
Post Edited (2009-12-28 06:39)
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2009-12-28 05:23
Capriccio IS an awesomely fun piece to play =D
I'll be nagging my music director at school to play it
But even though you are playing the 2nd part, it is still a fun piece.
The 2nd clarinet part is IMO pretty important after the cadenzas in the 4th movement.
Brian Chau
University of British Columbia Concert Winds
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-12-28 05:47
I'm not playing 2nd part. I'm playing 1st part. Why? I don't know. They probably just wanted to split it evenly.
I was just saying, the composer could've been a little more considerate to write a section division in the 1st part in the case there were two 1sts.
Post Edited (2009-12-28 05:50)
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2009-12-28 06:01
OH.... oops... my mistake
all that Boxing Day shopping (for those who know what it is) has got me in a different time zone...
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-28 14:17
fermata_chick wrote:
<< The wind instruments for the orchestra are the top chairs that make the All-region Band.>>
That's different from when I was in school. We actually went to two separate auditions, one for orchestra (which was usually held first) and then one for orchestra. When I was a freshman, I went to three "regions": region orchestra, freshman region band, and region band.
Thanks for answering my question--so, as I understand it now, what you call "UIL orchestra" is the same thing as what we would have called "region orchestra" in my day. Am I right?
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Author: marcia
Date: 2009-12-28 16:03
>all that Boxing Day shopping (for those who know what it is)
Yes! One step removed from insanity.......!! ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
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