 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-10 07:47
so, i'm planning on auditioning for UMass Amherst sometime in February.
UMass is definitely an attractive school for anyone. but how is their music program.
sorry this probably seems like a very naive question since i'm planning on auditioning and i dont know much about the school. i do know that they dont require an A clarinet, and thats good for me cuz i dont have one.
and i was attracted to how nicely the website was set up. even had a music education major example class schedule.
so, how is their school of music, and what other schools should i try out for.
for reference (since i know someone will ask) the things i want in a school are:
1) i want seasoned teachers teaching, and not underpaid grad students who dont want to be there
2) I want enough leisure to interpret the music i play with my own personality.
3) i want opportunity to join a broad spectrum of ensembles.
4) i want a little bit of competition, i want the other students to be monster players.
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-12-10 16:05
Hi, I am currently attending UMass Amherst as a clarinet performance major.
The music program is indeed very good. During the first few weeks of being here, I heard numerous people talking about this or that instrumental studio and how intense they are, and after a while I realized that every studio gets mentioned - they are all very very good. The teachers here are all seasoned veteran players with excellent careers and former students filling really good orchestral seats. If you are looking for music ed, the last time I checked the program has a 100% job rate for graduating seniors.
The clarinet teacher here, if you have not already looked at his bio on the site, has an extensive career playing principal in top orchestras around the world, has been a soloist with many as well, has played with top chamber ensembles as well as having many students go on to rich and rewarding careers. As a teacher, he is one of the best. He will push you very hard to become the best player you can be, and he has a lot of knowledge of pretty much everything. He is very open to letting his students develop their own styles and their own interpretations of pieces, and he knows just how to guide you to do this.
The studio is good as well. You will definitely find yourself amongst some very good players, and you will find yourself working hard to get as good as them. You should come see how we play in concerts during the spring semester, so you can get an idea of what it will be like.
The ensembles are nothing but spectacular. Just this year we have hired a new director of bands, and he is the real deal. You should read up on his bio as well. He is rather young, and he seems very excited to be here for a long time. He has already done so much to promote the program and I firmly believe that what he is doing is going to strengthen the entire department for many years to come. There are two bands, the Symphony Band and the Wind Ensemble. Both groups play at a high level and whichever one you are placed in will provide an excellent experience for you. The orchestra always sounds great, and a nice part about it is that the wind seats are rotated. This semester they took four clarinets and a bass clarinetist. This by no means you will be automatically in the orchestra your freshman year, but at many other schools the two grad. students play in the orchestra and no one else gets a chance. Not so here.
This may seem biased because I attend the school, but I really believe that the program here is very underrated. You should definitely come hear the ensembles, take a lesson with the clarinet teacher, and perhaps come to sit in on a day of ensemble rehearsals to make sure it is really the right place for you. If you have any more specific questions, or would like to shadow someone for a day, feel free to contact me off board.
Most of all, good luck with your auditions!
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-10 20:22
wow thank you so much clariknight.
can you direct me to any online recordings of the ensembles? i cant find any. :(
and how many people would you say are in the music program and in the clarinet program?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-11 00:25
I suggest that you take the time to visit "all the schools" you are applying for. You are considering more than just one aren't you? Try to arrange a lesson with the clarinet teacher if possible and sit in on a few rehearsals if you can to "hear" for yourself what you are looking for. Don't put all your reeds in one basket, no matter which school it is. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-11 00:54
definitely Ed. I'm still young in my search for a school, and i'm looking for some suggestions on schools to explore.
Only draw back is that i will only have enough time to visit maybe three or four schools.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-11 03:19
Check out the state schools that have good music departments, especially in your state. Private schools are far too expensive these days. If you have to take out student loans it may take you forever to pay them back and you can get the same quality education both in music ed and performance in a great many state schools these days. ESP
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-12-11 12:12
Discuss the schools you are considering with your music teachers at your high school, as well as with your current clarinet teacher. Additionally, you might seek out the advice of any professional clarinetists in your general area,a s to the reputation of the particular schools.
When you arrange visits to the campuses, be sure to schedule a lesson witht eh professor in charge of the clarinet studio. It's best to have at least one lesson wwith him/her prior to auditioning. Thisa allows you to see if the two of you are a good "fit" and the professor will have a better idea of your skills and capabilities, prior to the actual audition. They generally remember the students who have visited.
Granted we're on an online BBS here, so your writing may not be indicative of your real writing style, but also polish up your writing skills a little. If you have to submit any essays or other writing samples for admission to the college, this can make a huge difference. Concentrate on proper spelling and grammar, as well as using capitalization where appropriate. I'm not trying to be snide or petty here...you are making an impression on the admissions staff with every word you write. If you need to, have an English teacher look over EVERY piece of writing you are planning on sending to each college/university. You only get one chance to make a good first impression, and this can be critical.
Jeff
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-12-11 16:02
Ditto on Ed's recommendation. Wait until grad school for the expensive places, when you know exactly what angle you want to take things. An inexpensive undergrad also gives you freedom to explore if, for example, you suddenly discover a passion for microbiology.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-12-11 22:46
ShazamaPajama,
I do not believe that there are any recordings of the ensembles here online. All the members are students, so there is a privacy issue with publicizing anything we do. We do however have a reserve lab here with recordings which you may be allowed to access if you contact the school - but no guarantees. I highly recommend you do what the others have recommended as well, to make sure UMass is the right fit for you. It would also be really good for you to hear the ensembles live.
In the music program I would very very roughly estimate 300-500 students. This is including all the undergrads and grads, jazz majors, composition majors, and so on. In the clarinet studio there are about 15 of us.
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-12 00:18
i'm not in high school. i'm definitely not writing like i would write a paper. lol this is an online thread. and i have already explored the music programs in my area
is it really this hard to give me recommendations on good music schools???
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2009-12-12 01:47
If you are looking for someone to name a school for you, you will probably not get it here. Education is a very individualistic thing and what works for one may not be right for another. You have been given a raft of suggestions on how to locate a school that will fit your needs. I see considerable thought in the responses. Use those responses to fuel your research (colleges expect you to be able to do that) and come up with the best fit for you. If that requires "too much effort", you are not qualified to be a serious student anywhere.
If all you want is a list of school names, make an appointment with a local high school counselor (even if you are not a student in their school) and they will be happy to give you a list of schools where you can study music.
I offer this advice from the standpoint of a retired high school teacher with a brother, sister-in-law, sister, and brother-in-law who are all university profs.
Good luck.
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-12 02:04
thats a good idea, i'm at community college, so i didnt know if the the counselor would have a list of what schools have music programs.
i wish i could find a list of music program statistics, that would really help.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-12-12 02:27
ShazamaPajama wrote:
> i wish i could find a list of music program statistics, that
> would really help.
How would some arbitrary statistics help? What statistics? Help what?
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-12 02:36
graduate job rates, teacher to student ratio, pricing, etc. how does it not help to take every bit of information into account when choosing a school.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-12-12 03:23
ShazamaPajama wrote:
> graduate job rates, teacher to student ratio, pricing, etc. how
> does it not help to take every bit of information into account
> when choosing a school.
Because if you & the teacher don't get along all stats are meaningless.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-12-12 04:08
ShazamaPajama wrote:
> yeah i'm not going to count that out either. c'mon...
You misunderstand.
It is the one and most important thing; it doesn't matter how much your full-time teacher has to offer if you and the teacher don't get along. In a masterclass it doesn't make a difference. For 2 or 4 years it does, especially since for all intents and purposes you're looking as if you're thinking of a career.
Before you worry about stats and such, do as suggested above and take some lessons with prospective teachers. I've seen it turn out bad - albeit not often - but when it does the result isn't pretty.
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-12 04:27
look. i'm in the process of looking for any "prospective teachers" right now. i'm looking for a starting point. if i could i would be looking at the stats of schools so i could go to the schools that look good and see if their teachers are for me.
everyone is giving me advice for what to do after ive picked a handful of schools to explore. which is great and i appreciate all that advice. but all i have is one school i'm interested in right now. so i'm not there yet.
i would love to take a lesson with a few good teachers if i knew where they were teaching. i dont know. how do i find the school where i want to explore? well for now all i have to go by is the reputation of the school. so i thought i would swing by the bboard and ask for some suggestions.
Post Edited (2009-12-12 05:12)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-12-12 05:58
Job rates? For music school graduates? Stats of schools are almost completely meaningless when it comes to music programs. Problem for you is that there are too darn many programs out there for you to know what's what. People in the general area of a school would be able to offer opinions on it, but without knowing how you play and what you're looking for and knowing your personality, it's all a crapshoot.
It depends a lot on what you're looking for in a program. I tend to see people in one of 3 positions (and I went through all 3)...
1) Still figuring things out, with a fairly decent idea of a major, and some vague thoughts of what to do afterwards
2) Have established some sort of perspective on what angle they want to pursue, and have criteria on whether a school would be good *for them*, not just whether the school is good in general
3) Have a very particular set of goals and opinions, to the point that there may only be a few schools out there that are really suited to them (though they could do OK elsewhere), and that they have some very exact criteria they are searching for. May find a "this place is perfect!" school, and would be able to recognize it when it came along.
Not saying this is a particular hierarchy or that you should be aiming at another level. I went from 1 to 2 to 3 (3 being for oddballs like me) in the time between first thinking about grad school and being accepted (my first round of apps, at 2, was unsuccessful). Thing is, at 1, just about every place out there is potentially perfectly fine, and if you don't know what exactly you're looking for (which you probably don't that early in your career, as I didn't), it's hard to give a recommendation.
The things you mention as criteria are very focused on particular aspects of the performer-aiming-for-an-orchestral-job path, which I find ill-advised, but whatever. Your criteria also have an angle of veiled criticisms of some unknown-to-us programs, though they do give some insight into your personality in that you currently seem to be of what I call the "upwardly mobile performer" type. Some questions that could help us narrow your search...
- Do you have any other interests that you might like to take a few courses in? Physics? Dance? Russian history?
- How are your finances?
- What sort of music do you play and listen to?
- Might you have any interest in teaching, writing music, improvising, working with composers, collaborating with other fields?
- Would staying closer to your current home be considered a benefit? Are there any geographical areas you think you might want to settle down in long-term?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-12 07:00
alex, you are awesome.
- as far as other interests go, in community college i took some poli sci and economics classes cuz i like that stuff. really more towards the theory portion though.
- my personal finances are okay. i'm not rich but i have a job. i come from what the government deems as a low income household because my dad my dad makes so little. so i've been funding my college through the grants the government gives me. out here in nevada they give me like $5350 a year, and i;m eligible for like every type of financial aid ever. its actually not bad
- i like to listen to bands like Between the Buried and Me. pink floyd. imogen heap. red jumpsuit apparatus. Eric whitacre. frank ticheli. samuel hazo. tchaikovski would be my favorite old school guy. drum corp style music. phish. i like the planets by gustav holst. i like shostakovitch. i like video game music. the debussy clarinet rhapsody.
- i'm definitely interested in teaching in a high school. but i want to be a good clarinet player when i graduate. so education and performance, i would be interested in both.
- the only benefit of staying close to home would be cost. although here in nevada we are like 46th in education, and there are only 2 schools with a music program where i would be given in-state tuition. i was in the UNLV program for awhile. and i didnt like it at all. the teacher and i didnt get along, and the classes were being taught by graduate students who would tell the class that they didnt want to be there. it was not very pleasant. so i decided to get my two years of general classes out of the way first in community college so i can focus on the music portion later.
i dont think i have a preference in where i would like to settle for my life, maybe somewhere greener than the desert.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-12 15:36
Listen SP, you're looking for a specific answer. There are so many good quality schools in the US to consider I could send you a list of 2 dozen without a problem. Your problem is expenses. A top conservatory in this country will cost over 30 K just for tuition alone, not including living and other costs. You may have a job now but that doesn't mean you will find one when you leave home to make enough to live on and still have time to practice and do your school work. Decide what states you're willing to move too and check on google to check out the state schools and then try to arrange a visit and a lesson. You will still have to pay out of state tuition and living costs, 20-25K in most cases each year if you don't get a decent scholarship, and you really don't want to graduate with hugh loan payments. You've been given very good advice above, act on it. ESP
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-12-12 15:50
A quick suggestion:
If you haven't already done so, go to a good library and read through several college catalogues like Barron's, Peterson's or Fiske's. Find schools with music programs. There may even be a separate guide on this subject. Ask the reference librarian.
You can collate these by state, by cost, by admission standards.
Make a list.
Then, if you like, you can post here to see if anyone on the bulletin board has first-hand knowledge of the schools you may be interested in.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-12-12 16:06
OK, so good ed school where you can also perform well, with bonus points for good poly sci, econ, band program. That narrows it down quite a bit. I'd say to make a list of "sleepers" -- schools with a quite good program, but that don't spend all their energy trying to make a name for themselves, and that have low tuition. I did my undergrad at a place like that (and know lots of graduates who are good players and teaching). If not for the California budget crisis, I'd have recommendations for you, but I'm not going to recommend anywhere that's cutting out days of instruction until this fustercluck passes over. Perhaps others on this board would know of similar schools in states with stable finances.
Unfortunately, sleepers are a bit tricky to find, and just because a school isn't well known, doesn't mean it has a good program.
I ask about location because music school isn't just about "learning things," it's also about meeting people, making connections. You're likely to have far more opportunities in an area where people know you than if you're new in town.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-12-12 16:08
Remember that the teacher will be teaching you performance practices. You might have your own intrepretation of the works, but he will show you what is "standard" or his version of it.
Don't argue with that, as that's part of the learning process. You may have more to learn than you think.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2009-12-12 22:32
In our current society, if you plan to teach in high school, you had better have a backup plan, too. Unless you are in a fairly large school, a single subject credential will most likely have you teaching only part time. It takes a fairly large school (or possibly several schools) to provide enough students to offer a music class every period of the day. You will probably need to be able to teach other subjects in order to fill out the rest of the day. In addition, when money gets tight, the arts are usually the first to get hit.
I taught in a small district and was the only one in the district credentialed in Bilogy, Chemistry, and Physics. With the addition of tenure, that made my job about as bomb proof as any job can get. When I retired, they really had to scramble to find someone who was close enough to teach on emergency credentials while she took the rest of the classes she needed to qualify.
If you are thinking public schools, don't put all your eggs in one basket -- especially in the arts.
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Author: ShazamaPajama
Date: 2009-12-13 00:12
great advice everyone!
i'm definitely gonna try weberfan's idea.
i dont have anything left to ask really.
~thanks
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