 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-11-21 22:41
The throat A keys on both my Buffet Festivals have been quite waterlogged since I bought them a year ago. I did not have this problem with my Buffet S1 before that. The water usually gathers in the tonehole after twenty minutes or so of playing, and is very difficult to get completely out even when I blow it away and repeatedly dry it with sigarette paper.
This is starting to become a serious problem for my performances - today quite a few of the a1s in the last movement of the Sain-Saëns sonata arrived late or didn't arrive at all.
I've heard that oiling the bore of the upper joint would prevent water from gathering as it "creates tracks" for the water to run which do not end up in the tonehole for the A key.
I have also heard that replacing the gore-tex pad of the A key with cork should solve the matter.
What are your opinions on this? Do you know of any other measures one can take to prevent water gathering in this tonehole?
PS: I have been told quite a few times that I probably hold the clarinet upside down during rests (with the A key under). I do however not do this... I know some players will have more trouble with waterlogged keys than others, but surely there must be a way to deal with it... Perhaps increase the opening of the A key? That will probably make the throat register go out of tune, though...
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
Post Edited (2009-11-21 22:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2009-11-22 05:02
I'd start with bore oil (Doctors Products - Bore Doctor). Also - make sure that pad isn't leaking slightly.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-11-22 06:38
It's important, especially if you're having a persistent problem like this, to swab each instrument after a few minutes of warming up - before the tone hole fills up. More frequent swabbing may prevent it or at least reduce the persistence. The ambient temperature where you're playing has something to do with it - the lower the temperature in the room - or probably more to the point, the greater the difference between the room temperature and the temperature of your breath, the more likely you are to have condensation forming inside the bore. If you play in the same place all the time, that may partially explain the problem. In any case, the easiest solution is frequent swabbing. Sometimes a little bore oil strategically placed around the top of the tone hole will repel the water and divert it around the hole, but another tone hole in a more or less direct line under the A key will probably fill up instead. The water is going to go somewhere.
If I don't swab, I have a similar problem with the side Eb-Bb and the G#-Ab below it.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-11-22 07:18
The type of pad used won't change the situation as water will still collect in toneholes regardless of the type of pad installed. Cork pads won't solve water problems, but they will withstand the effects of gettign wet better than some types of leather pads and skin pads.
Porous leather pads or punctured skin pads will absorb water, and the misconception when cork pads have been installed in these troublesome areas is they make the water problems worse - the amount of water collecting doesn't change, it's the amount of absorbancy the pad exhibits that has changed.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-11-22 09:31
Thank you for your answers. I will try applying a little bore oil in vicinity of the tonehole.
As for frequent swabbing - it's OK in rehearsal, but when you are playing a fifty minute recital you don't want to take a break every few minutes to swab the clarinet.
Well, I do have problems with water in the eb/Bb and c#/g# keys as well, I just figured that was much more common.
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-11-22 12:54
A standard repair tech's cure is to take a pipe cleaner and bend the last 1/8" at a right angle. Then dip the bent part in bore oil, blot off the excess and draw an inverted U shape of oil in the bore above and around the sides of the hole. The oil repels water and will guide dripping condensation around the hole.
There was a long, inconclusive discussion on one of the oboe boards about using Rain-X in the same way. It's sold in auto supply stores and prevents window fogging.
There's also a product called Duponol, which recorder players use in the windway. It's a anti-wetting agent that makes water slide off.
I defer to Chris P on this, though.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-11-22 13:49
Acetone to remove the "water track" and almond oil to trace around the tone hole.
That's what mark Jacobi did to my prestige back when it was new and having a problem with one of the tone holes getting consistant water in it.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-11-22 14:30
I don't think there's anything wrong with swabbing during a performance. For a recital, you can swab before you go on to play the first piece (you've already warmed up) and then between pieces. I'd avoid doing it between movements or during a long rest if it's avoidable, but I've seen major players swab between movements of chamber or recital pieces. It doesn't take any time to slip the mouthpiece out, take the swab from your pocket and run it through the clarinet once or twice. This is even more important if you need to change clarinets during the recital so that you *are* playing a slightly cold instrument. It's a necessary part of playing a clarinet.
This isn't to argue against trying to protect the tone hole with oil around its perimeter. I just assume that, if the water doesn't come out one place, it will find another, so the problem only moves.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-22 16:02
I've seen players play a half recital without ever swabbing out and I've seen players swab after several movements throughout their recital. That's me, I'd rather swab ten times in a recital then get water in my keys and have performance problems. I usually have to swab once or twice in a full sonata, quintet etc. In the symphony, our principal player and I are always swabbing, it's that or bubble. You can do it quickly and discreetly and not make a fuss. Some players just play more wet than others or have the travel problem to the side keys more then others. Swab, swab, swab. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-11-22 16:22
I hate tone hole water and think that the fact that we've still got that problem after all these years is a HUGE black mark on the instrument makers.
I swab, swab, swab.
BUT, I've tried hydrophobic treatments in an effort to prevent water entry to the tone holes. The most successful of these was to clean around the tone hole entry in the bore and then wax around it. I used an English furniture wax that is as hard as plastic. It worked wonderfully --but not for long. Soon, the silk swab had reduced the wax to nothing much, and the bubbles were back.
BTW: some of the hole wetting effects are quite subtle --as Joarkh mentioned, sometimes a note simply will not speak or be delayed in starting --this can be difficult for a newcomer to diagnosis. Sometimes, the frustration level will cause the player to simply quit --then, the problem will be gone (dried out) when next the horn comes out of the box to play.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-11-22 20:31
I have used the technique of removing the A key and painting the sides of the tonehole with thin film of vaseline applied with a cotton bud. Then clean just the tonehole rim seating with lighter fluid. Seems to have solved the problem for some of my customers. May need repeating every few months or so.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2009-11-27 14:46
I've had this problem on several clarinets, and I've found that the best results I got were by spraying the pad and hole with an aerosol silicone spray. It's pretty much eliminated the problem, and on the rare occasions that it recurs a little spray of silicone fixes it for another 6 months.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
