 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: golfnclarinet
Date: 2009-11-09 22:04
Folks, I need your help.
I’m 51 years old and a computer engineer.
I have one son who is 20 years old and was in pretty good school with Chemistry Engineering major.
I had him years of private lesson on clarinet, piano, cello but he loves playing clarinet and had a couple of solo performances with youth orchestra(Mozart, Krommer) and was in the first chair in local youth orchestra when he was in high school. He seems to have good talent in music.
He’s off school right now and going back to school soon.
Here’s my dilemma.
He seems to lose his interest in his major.
He’s taking classes (mostly music) in local college right now but is ready to go back to his main school.
I don’t know he wants to switch his major to the music. I haven’t talk about it with him.
He might… be afraid of telling me..…not sure.
We all know he has ton of options as a chemistry engineer.
What can he expect as a musician(maybe a clarinet player)?
I really appreciate for your thought, experience and advice.
Thanks in advance.
Sorry for my English(my 2nd language).
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-11-09 22:14
No need to apologize for your English. It's at least as good as many native born Americans who went through the public school system. ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
You might want to suggest to your son that he simply enroll in a single performance ensemble at the school, or if they are only open to people in the music school, see if there is a community band in the area that he could join.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-11-09 22:14)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-11-09 22:29
If he is interested, then he should go for a music minor (at least) in his regular school. Most music minor programs give a lot of basics that are very useful and essential even for music majors.
If he wants to teach, he should switch his major to music education.
From my personal experience going through schools and seeing others do the same...
Any student today that is interested in performing must have a masters degree. An undergraduate degree is not useful and really does not prove much for performers. An undergrad degree in music is NOT required to get into most graduate programs. I know people in Manhattan School of Music that did not major in music during undergrad, but were in the grad program.
So what does that mean? If he is good enough he might want to hold off on the music major until grad school. (I guess he is already about 50% finished with his chemistry degree???) This way, he won't lose the time having to start over with a new major. He should still go for the music minor (and maybe a little extra music courses, private lessons and theory) because this will benefit him when he applies to grad schools.
A total change to music major is not a bad thing, but he will have to start over and that will add a few years to his under grad.
This is IMO.
Post Edited (2009-11-09 22:30)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-09 23:54
It is very difficult to make a living playing the clarinet today. The competition is incredible for a symphony job and you have to be amongst the very, very best to compete. Playing jazz is also very difficult to actually make a living. University teaching requires a DMA degree these day for almost every University, unless you already play in a major symphony. I have a page on my website titled "Symphony Jobs in the USA" about that. The most available opportunities to make a living playing the clarinet is playing in a service band, military. There are many good opportunities available there though the best bands, and there are many, are very competitive. He should be encouraged to finish his chemistry degree and minor in music, take lessons and join what ever ensemble he has time to play in that's available to him. That way he can always continue with music once he has a degree that he can actually make a good living and play the clarinet as a hobby.
ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-11-10 01:38
I second the idea of a music minor. That's what I did as a computer science major. I ended up taking so many music classes that I added a music major (in composition). I graduated, worked 3 years in the computer field, and now am in grad school as a performer/composer with lots of plans on what to do with music from here on out. I do always have the computer expertise to fall back on, which is nice.
Know that, as a clarinet performer, chances are extremely slim that you will find someone to hire you for a job that will pay the bills. If someone is creative and resourceful enough, they may be able to make a go of it through a variety of possibilities that they more or less have to create and seek out on their own, which is what I'm setting course for (part of the plan is the 30 watt amp I just bought for my bass clarinet).
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: allencole
Date: 2009-11-10 06:39
It sounds like he's been in college for a while. Obviously, it would be preferable for him to finish his current degree program, but it sounds like a demanding one and he needs to make sure he can stay the course. Adding a minor of any kind--particularly in music--could really exacerbate his workload. Not good if motivation is already an area of concern.
There's nothing wrong with majoring in music, but rarely does it actually lead to a career in music over a lifetime. Those of us who are doing music full-time have to tackle it from a wide variety of angles. There is work other than in symphony orchestras, but that work is demanding in its own way--and sometimes in ways that music school won't prepare you for.
Music majors do well an a number of fields, including computer programming, but most folks with music degrees have to go out and get postgraduate certificates in other subject areas. Not very cost effective when school loans are already hanging over your head.
Good luck. This is a tough area of life to navigate. After some time has gone by, think about reactivating this thread and let us know how it turned out.
Allen Cole
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2009-11-10 13:41
I'd also chime in on becoming a music minor, and taking the route of possibly pursuing music in a graduate degree. He could also find ways to use the chemistry engineering degree to help musicians as well. I'm not sure how exactly, but finding a music related job using the degree he is obtaining could be another step in keeping music in his life. Possibly helping with instrument design and whatnot.
I will chime in that finding something one loves to do will always keep them working, rather than finding something that one "thinks" he'll make good money with. You'll strive to work your hardest each day if you love your job, instead of dreading going to work each day if you're not doing what you love. Not saying that he doesn't love chemical engineering, but finding something that could utilize both could possibly make him enjoy a long life!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-11-10 14:06
Quote:
I will chime in that finding something one loves to do will always keep them working, rather than finding something that one "thinks" he'll make good money with. You'll strive to work your hardest each day if you love your job, instead of dreading going to work each day if you're not doing what you love. I know this is a bit of an exaggeration, but the principle he's setting up certainly fits.
I personally chose to leave a fairly well-paying job, with full benefits, to pursue music. I found that I was working at my job, and rushing home to play clarinet about 2 hours a night before I had to go to bed and repeat. There are certainly aspects about my current job I don't enjoy, but all in all, I would rather have the lesser pay and more time to play.
On that respect, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be one or the other. Perhaps a community band after work will be able to satisfy his musical side.
But I think one of the biggest factors that may have been overlooked is that your son is 20 years old. He just may not know what he wants for the rest of his life and wants to explore a few avenues. I know sometimes the decisions that "should" be made look very clear to a parent, but he may just need to find his own path and maybe is just unsure of what he wants to "lock" himself into for what for him seems to be the rest of natural life! hehehe. I would recommend being supportive, and just sitting down and having a serious, but friendly discussion about his passion for music, what he really thinks about engineering, and offer your advice a listening ear.
Alexi
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-11-10 15:09
My son earned a degree in music performance and then went to law school. His music resume sounds a lot like your son but he quickly figured out that if there were 2 or 3 clarinetists with better skills than he had in his professor's studio, he was not going to get a job as a musician and he had no interest in teaching.
If a parent is footing the bill for a $20,000 a year public school or a $50,000 year private school it is absolutely valid to sit down and talk this through and develop a plan.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-11-10 15:17
There are also people who get degrees in a non-music field or double major and then later make a career in music. Some more famous examples are below:
Chi-Yu Mo got his PhD in chemistry from Cambridge, then studied at the Royal Academy of Music. Now he plays 2nd clarinet with the London Symphony.
Richard Stoltzman (classical and jazz soloist) double-majored in music and mathematics, then later went to graduate school in music.
Antony Pay (who posts on this board) studied music at the Royal Academy, then went to Cambridge and earned a degree in mathematics, then went into music full-time. He's a world-class soloist, orchestral musician, conductor, and teacher.
Charles Neidich got his degree in anthropology, then made advanced clarinet studies in Russia on a Fulbright scholarship. He's well known as a soloist and teacher.
Jonathan Cohler has a degree in physics, worked for about a decade as a magazine editor, then started his own record company selling his own recordings. Now he teaches on the faculty of three conservatories and conducts in addition to appearing as a soloist. Supposedly, he only took one music course his entire time in college, a course in conducting, which he found boring. Cohler and I often disagree on things, but I can't deny he's made a decent career in music despite his lack of formal music credentials. (He had good teachers.)
Several prominent clarinetists got their start in teaching and then moved into performing. Jack Brymer (formerly of the London Symphony) started as a schoolteacher. Robert Spring (professor at Arizona State and soloist) and Richard Nunemaker (formerly of the Houston Symphony) started out as a school band directors.
And it's not just clarinetists. Sir Roger Norrington (conductor) earned a degree in English, worked for a while as an editor for Oxford University Press while performing as an amateur singer, then got recruited into professional music. Now he's one of the world's great conductors.
Also, on that note, I wouldn't discount the experiences you can have without being a full-time professional player or even being an amateur player. I majored in engineering, then earned a master's in computer science, then earned a law degree (none of which involved taking music courses--but I did stay active in music the whole time). Nowadays I play in a regional symphony orchestra alongside professional musicians, quite a number of whom have advanced degrees in music (so it's a more professional-like experience than playing in a community band--although I've done that before and enjoyed it, too.) I love it--symphony rehearsal's the highlight of my week; unless I'm feeling tired, I usually feel like rehearsal's ended too soon.
The key to happiness for the musically inclined ("musically driven" is probably more descriptive of some of us, myself included) is to find ways to stay involved in music throughout life, no matter what you have to do to pay the bills.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-11-10 15:24
I have a cousin in law that earned his chemestry degree in college, was able to earn a LOT of money as an environmental hazard site consultant and has lived in million dollar residences in the Washington, DC & Chicago areas, all while pursuing a secondary interest as a vocalist with many community theatre and choral organizations. Throughout his life, he has enjoyed what I call the best of both worlds--musical enjoyment and personal wealth via his chemistry credentials. Personally, I majored in music education, taught in the public school system and have played clarinet all of my life in every musical venue there is--and loved most every moment of it. However, I have always been fascinated by lawyer shows on television and looking, especially, at the mansion my brother-inlaw lawyer now lives in, I often wonder--although I now live in a nice home and have a great pension--what "might have been" had I graduated from law school rather than music school. In fact, I have many friends who are very good musicians, but chose careers in business, law or engineering and are now quite "comfortable". More reason to reflect on my career choice "back in the day".............?$$?
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