 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-10-31 21:34
To my knowledge, I have never had trouble with breath support or with air speed. I think my tone is decent and full, and I can play fff easily when required. When Brad Behn repaired my mouthpiece, he described it as "centered," and had good things to say about it. It's a Charles Bay, MO-M, K-C-14...if that means anything to anyone, and I'm on an 80's vintage R-13. I have plenty of air to honk through my new toy...a bass clarinet.
Yet, on my soprano Bb, I often feel like I am gasping for breath. Or perhaps a better description is that I feel lilke I may take in too much air and it doesn't all get used. It's like when you hold your breath for a long time without exhaling.
Therefore, while it seems natural to refill the lungs at the end of a phrase, I feel the need to take an exhallation break as well, although there is often not time for this. When there are a few measures rest, I find myself breathing rather rapidly until I have the sense that I have gotten back into a regular breathing pattern. It worsens in solo performance, when the nerves kick in.
Is there such a thing as breathing too deeply before playing? Is there a way to get rid of extra air without sacrificing dyamics or tone? My deep breathing happens involuntarily, and when I consciously think about taking in less air, I start to feel oxygen-deprived, and require another deep breath. Am I just full of hot air?
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Author: knotty
Date: 2009-10-31 22:02
I used to have that same thing, I think it's the carbon dioxide building up. I cured it by taking breaths at shorter intervals and smaller breaths. Also, if I take in too much air, I try to release it through the edges of the mouth as I'm playing.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-10-31 22:03
I've always exhaled before inhaling whenever there's time. It's a legitimate part of breathing technique.
Karl
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-10-31 22:27
Having to exhale is normal. Oboists get it even worse.
I was told by a biochemist friend that it's the carbon dioxide build-up in the lungs that makes us feel the need to breathe more. I am told a remarkable tale that at university, they would hook an unsuspecting student up to a machine in which they would be able to breathe in-and-out a fixed volume of air. Pretty soon carbon dioxide build-up would make this intolerable. Then a CO2 scrubber would be introduced into the system. The student will now breathe in-and-out quite normally until they pass out...
On a more musical note, if you're blowing CO2 through your instrument you will be playing noticeably flat.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-31 22:36
I had this discussion with Loren Kitt, Principal of the National Symphony in Wash. DC and number of years ago and we both agreed that one should only take as big a breath as is necessary for the phrase you're playing so you don't always build up stale are. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2009-10-31 22:46
The above comments are correct. What causes the sensation of shortness of breath is the build up of CO2 in the blood. When dissolved in the blood, it produces carbonic acid which causes you to feel short of breath. So long as you can get rid of the CO2 (by breathing ANY other gas), you have no shortness of breath, even if you have no O2. High altitude jet pilots go through training in order to learn to identify the feeling of a shortage of oxygen so that they can react before they pass out. Without a gas moving in and out of the lungs at an adequate rate, the CO2 will build up in the blood.
The sensation while playing is more pronounced among those of us with asthma.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-11-01 06:39
For God's sake don't try playing the Oboe !
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2009-11-01 06:39)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-11-01 08:16
My personal opinion from observation is that, when young people start thinking about breathing, they tend to take in far too much air. They try to fill their lungs to the absolute maximum which is really not necessary or beneficial. Maybe this is what you are doing?
Try taking less air and see if there is any improvement of this problem.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2009-11-01 13:36
Oboists go through this all the time! Part of the reason I learned to circular breath was to alleviate this issue when playing oboe. I couldn't take short breaths (like I do on flute for example), so I learned at first just to breath out while playing, so I could breath in on the rest, and naturally the breathing in process came. Or finding two short rests, one to breath out (because you can play for a few beats after breathing out), and one to breath in. Part of it can be fixed by experimenting with how much breath you actually need for a certain phrase.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-11-02 00:45
Yes Concertmaster that is true. I also play a lot of Oboe even though it is my second instrument of choice after the Clarinet. I love the sound of it when you have a good reed . Up to a certain extent I have no problem with the Oboe breathing technique which is very similar to the breathing that swimmers use, that is, little gasps at the end of each phrase, however, as was mentioned above there is apparently a build up of carbon dioxide in the blood stream which leads to a tiredness and for me this seems to be getting worse as I get older. I'm 65 now. There may be a good quality Oboe for sale soon
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-11-02 01:40
When I inhale, I don't feel like I am taking in too much air, although I do breathe deeply. Thanks to music teachers along the way, I at least don't breathe in and pull my shoulders up to my ears...instead, I use my diaphragm to do the work. I will try taking in less air, but it will take some experimenting to know if this will affect air speed and tone quality.
Interesting how playing an instrument is actually a scientific endeavor...from carbon dioxide, to expansion and contraction of materials with moisture/temperature, to material shape/composition and vibrations, etc. Makes one think that physics and chemistry should be a required course for music majors.
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Author: dtclarinet ★2017
Date: 2009-11-10 01:09
After years of exploration into this problem, which I also suffered from, I have found the solution. It's simple to describe, but can be tricky to enact.
The problem occurs not so much because you have too much air, but because your breathing apparatus literally goes into a panic from being constricted and tight. If I may, I recommend you think about it as a problem of quality of air and exhale, rather than too much air. (of course, the previous advice not to over-inhale is absolutely valid)
There are two parts to the process of breathing and supporting with quality. 1- quality of inhale and 2- quality of exhale. Both are important, and related to each other.
1- The inhale should be a soft (quiet) but quick expansion of ribs and simultaneous dropping of diaphragm/gut. The shoulders go up, but only riding the ribs, which expand out in all directions. The gut "fills" as the diaphragm pushes down. Think of creating space for air, not sucking air in. This process allows your breathing muscles to stay soft and open.
Do not hold the air before playing. The inhale and exhale should be like going over the top of a roller coaster hill, just a change of direction, not stopping. This is key to prevent "clutching" of ribs.
One critical fact: The diaphragm can only pull down and create inhale. It is a one way muscle. It cannot "push" air out. The phrase "diaphragm support" is misleading and incorrect. The only action of the diaphragm during exhale is its strong tendency to return to resting position, going up. Keep this in mind!! However, the muscles around the abdomen DO help with exhales and can be supportive in controlling air release. Knowing what is what helps to better master the process.
2- The quality of exhale is equally important to attaining flexible support. When nerves kick in, your body tends to tighten, especially your neck and shoulders. The rib cage can go along with this tension, resulting in "constriction" instead of "support".
Keep your air free and flowing while playing. To practice keeping the air free when playing, try "sighing" through the instrument several times without playing. Relax everything as you exhale, with a little squeezing from the whole gut at the end. Keep neck, throat and chest "light". Now play a few notes using the same sighing exhalation. Slow this exhale down carefully to the point where you can play a fairly long note. Ultimately, "support" is a delicate, slow "letting" release of air, not a severe pushing. Volume of sound is increased by quantity of air, not by constriction of ribs.
As you play, be aware of the possibility/feeling of a fresh inhale, as a reminder of the soft opening of the space in your lungs. This helps keep the ribs "alive" and tender, rather than constricted and closed. (I got this idea from Tony Pay's article on support. See link below)
At some point, you may literally feel a soft squeezing around your heart, from your whole torso, all directions, top to bottom, as if your torso is gently enclosing the area around your heart. Don't seek this out as a goal; it's just a description of a feeling which lets you know your are on the right track.
The gist of my lecture is to monitor and prevent any "constriction" at any time, whether on quality of inhale or exhale.
I also strongly recommend that you refer to Tony Pay's long, but extremely informative and thoughtful article on breath support. I have learned a great deal from considering his ideas. (as long as you don't let your neck or rib cage constrict- have I said that enough times?)
"http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1999/04/000786.txt"
Best wishes with your breathing. I hope it improves for you. I know that awful feeling of gasping for air during a delicate place in a performance!!
David Thomas
David Thomas
Principal Clarinetist
Columbus Symphony Orchestra
Blog- TheBuzzingReed.com
Post Edited (2009-11-10 01:26)
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