 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fgrb
Date: 2009-10-24 00:30
I know this is likely the five-millionth time someone's written about this, but I got a brand-new rosewood clarinet today that I've wanted for AGES, and when I put it together I noticed the joints were very tight. However they eventually got greased up enough to pull apart well . . . except for the barrel. It is FUSED onto the upper joint. I've tried for HOURS to get it off.
And I've read the other posts on here and they all give conflicting advice. Please only give advice if you have gotten off a stuck barrel without too much damage.
Thank you SOO much!!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-24 00:59
Contact the manufacturer of the barrel for the best solution.
When I had that issue with a Leblanc Cadenza, they (Leblanc) suggested putting the barrel and upper joint into the fridge for a couple of hours. It worked, so I could detach the barrel. After that , I made arrangements to have it adjusted properly.
Jeff
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-24 02:46
I just made my suggestion to the post above about the bell being stuck, read that, it's the same advise. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-10-24 05:37
And if the cooling doesn't work, take it into the shop. Don't try prying it, using vise grips, or soaking it in whatever, as you'll likely end up with some incredibly high repair costs.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-24 09:03
With barrels, place a cloth on a worktop or table top and hold the barrel with your palm down firmly against it. With the other hand holding the upper joint, rock the joint slightly while pulling and then rotate it a quarter turn and do this again. Once the barrel is free, have it refitted - either have the socket enlarged or the tenon rings shaved. In both cases, only a small amount of wood is removed.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2009-10-24 17:14
Throw away your cork grease and start using Doctor Syntec (The Doctor's Products). I have "loaned" some to people who have had long term problems with tight joints and found an instant cure. With new cork, it will, like cork grease, tend to soak in and need to be reapplied frequently for awhile. Just use it in VERY SMALL amounts at a time or you might end up with a joint that won't stay together.
Disclaimer: other than being a convert, I have no connection to The Doctor's Products.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-10-25 02:37
Stuck joints like yours are in my experience rarely caused by corks that are too tight or sticky. The wood at the open end of the tenon is binding against the wood at the bottom of the socket or the wood at the bottom of the tenon is binding against the wood at the socket opening. You put it together, maybe noticing a little bit of resistance, but then as you play the wood warms and expands. If that's the case it won't much matter what lubricant you use, because the problem isn't with the cork.
The advice that's already been offered about rocking the joint gently or refrigerating it for a short while if all else fails is about all that can be done to free a barrel (or bell) that's already stuck. Once you get them apart, get the instrument to a repair tech ASAP to get the problem corrected, or it will in all likelihood happen again.
Karl
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-10-25 04:42
>> Throw away your cork grease and start using
>> Doctor Syntec (The Doctor's Products).
Like others wrote, stuck joints are usually the wood, not the cork. I'd say less than 10% of stuck joints I see are from too thick or dry cork, or bad cork grease.
I agree about the grease from Doctor's Products except I prefer the natural one Doctor Slick. When I compared them, Syntek didn't feel like I needed to use less than Slick. Syntek feels too greasy to touch which is why I prefer Slick which doesn't have this problem. If someone really wants synthetic cork grease I recommend the type made by Alisyn which has a much nicer less greasy feel than Doctor Syntek. Alisyn and Doctor Slick are the best two cork greases I found. I prefer Slick slightly just because it has a nice smell (though Alisyn doesn't have a bad smell, and is slightly nicer to touch).
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Author: fgrb
Date: 2009-10-25 14:52
Thanks everyone! I actually did get it off the other night - for some reason when I pulled it just popped off. But yesterday it happened again after I was playing, so I took it to the repairman. Also I really loosened one of the body rings, so it needed that too. Felt sooo stupid though: "Hi, yeah, I bought this clarinet here yesterday, and I can't get the barrel off . . . "
Oh well. We learn from our mistakes. I'll look into the Doctor cork grease, although my city isn't very uh . . . musically stocked? So it might be hard to find.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2009-10-25 16:33
Don't look for the Doctor's products in your local music store. He sells through his web site and his service is great. I seem to remember that his URL is the same as his site name, but you will get there if you Google "The Doctor's Products".
I guess your approach depends on your experience. I have a hobby of restoring older clarinets to help out students who can't otherwise afford to get into music in an area where the nearest music store is over an hour away. I have run into a number where the tenon cork and old (petroleum based) cork grease have turned into a very effective glue. I am not familiar with Alisyn, so I can't say which is "better". However, my experience is that everything I have gotten from the Doctor has exceeded my expectations.
In any event, I have found that, if you are looking for really informed answers, this is the place to look.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-25 17:01
As this is a brand new clarinet, play it in gently for the first few weeks. Ideally you should have bought it back in the Summer when the humidity levels were much higher, but as it stands, be very gentle with it now the humidity levels are dropping and the heating is back on, and don't play it for more than 30 mins at a time.
Rosewood is less stable than grenadilla (in most cases), so it will be more prone to humidity changes. But if played in gently, you shouldn't have any trouble with it. I know it's great to have a brand new instrument, but over the winter I'd suggest you carry on using your other clarinet (I assume you have another one) for all rehearsals and concerts until you've played in your rosewood one.
The first few weeks are critical as it's acclimatising to being played after coming off the production line (and will only have been play-tested before leaving the factory and then at the retailer), so this is when you'll most likely have the joints stick. Don't do anything that will invalidate the warranty, so if in doubt, take it back to where you bought it from so they can carry out any work within the warranty period.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: fgrb
Date: 2009-10-25 17:29
Great, I'll remember that. Yeah, I do still have my rental clarinet which has served me pretty well for three years (except for sometimes the screws on the mechanism come loose - hehe, good story about that, actually!)
I know I'm sort of changing the subject here, but I have a few more questions if it's not too much trouble:
1) My clarinet's a Diplomat. I've heard of that brand but can't find ANY information about it. Can anyone tell me anything?
2) What's a reasonable price for a new mouthpiece? I'm not professional or anything, but obviously the provided mouthpiece isn't great.
I promise I'll stop asking questions after this
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-25 19:39
I haven't heard of any clarinets bearing the name Diplomat - it's a model range of brass instruments made by King, but I've never known it in woodwind circles. I can only suspect it could be one of the new generation of Chinese makes along with Venus and Cibaili, though that's only speculation on my part.
I'm not sure how much Vandoren mouthpieces are in your area, but you should try a 5RV Lyre as a starting point and see how you get on with it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: fgrb
Date: 2009-10-25 19:44
Okay thanks . . . it's a really nice clarinet and was pretty expensive at its' original price (although I got it on sale cuz they only had like 2 left or something.).
Chinese sounds kind of sketchy though.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-25 19:51
I can't find any info on Diplomat clarinets online - does the company you bought it from have a website?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: fgrb
Date: 2009-10-26 02:52
Hmmm . . . very mysterious. I'm really scared now that it's going to break down in like three months. The complete void of information is startling. I thought this was the INFORMATION AGE!!
Anyway, I just bought it from what I consider the best music store in my city - ( www.renaissance-music.com ). I remember once by accident I took home my school's best clarinet player's clarinet (and was mortified later), but I believe it was Diplomat. I'm about 90% sure.
Still, I'm scared. After all what does an $1,500 price tag tell you, really?
The ONLY possible reference I can find is here:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=273624&t=273624
And even that doesn't tell you anything!
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Author: fgrb
Date: 2009-10-26 23:53
Wow, what a corny flyer for that sale . . .
No, I paid the sale price, but yes, it is from China *deep regretful sigh*. I asked my music teacher today. He said it's probably not a terrible instrument but it's probably not great.
I'm just angry because I wanted a clarinet that would last me a long time. Unfortunately my family doesn't really have the time to travel to other cities to look into other stores, try out instruments, etc.
Any advice you could give me on prolonging it's life, or maybe getting another instrument if it's that bad, would be greatly appreciated!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-27 00:17
Take it to a lesson to see if it's any good. If not, return it (if possible) and save a little longer and invest in a Ridenour Lyrique clarinet. Even though hard rubber Lyriques originate in China, the final finishing work is done by hand by Tom Ridenour, himself, in Texas. They are probably the best clarinet around for the money. The model is the 576 bc. They sell new for less that US $1000. If that's too much, look at his new 146 model for less money.
I checked the website Chris posted, and there is no mention of them selling any woodwinds except Jupiter and Yamaha. I would think that if these were high-quality instruments, they would have them listed on the regular website.
Jeff
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Author: fgrb
Date: 2009-10-27 00:35
Hey, thanks a lot - I'm looking at the Ridenour site now and the clarinets look great. They would be good for me especially because I live in Canada, the land of -40 C wind-chill factors, so no worrying about wood cracking.
I could get them in Canada, right?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-27 14:00
Of course. Tom will ship them direct to you. I have one (I'm almost in Canada....Detroit area). He ships domestically and internationally.
Jeff
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Author: fgrb
Date: 2009-10-27 17:24
Excellent! Thanks so much everyone, this is such a great site.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-27 18:44
And with them having ebonite bodies, you won't have to play them in as you would do with a wooden one, or encounter problems with sticking barrels!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2009-10-27 19:28
Congratulations on a new horn, and even though you have solved your problem, it happened to me once and I finally got the barrel off by just rocking it back and forth, not twisting or turning, just a gentle rocking motion. Surprisingly it worked.
Carol
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