 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 08clarinet
Date: 2009-09-22 04:43
I just came across one of the previous posts on the board about this product so I started researching it. From what I've read there are two different grades of sandpaper on the tool...So my question is, what makes this so special? Sandpaper and a glass surface to work on...
Is this a worthwhile product to own that gives significant results or is it just as simple as it sounds (sandpaper)? I'm hesitant because of the price and its seemingly simplistic nature but I've read great things too. Before I shell out $80 on the thing, I want to be sure I'm getting something great and not just glorified sandpaper.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-09-22 04:59
Did you read ANY of the past postings about the ATG system?
If you did, you would realize that the price of the ATG system is not for the simple tools, but rather the information and technique contained in the instructional DVD on how to use them to balance you reeds.
...GBK
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Author: susieray
Date: 2009-09-22 05:09
After watching Tom's DVD you will know Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Reeds *But Were Afraid to Ask
![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2009-09-22 05:32
It is phenomenal. Best balancing/reed adjustment tool ever! and sooooo easy to use
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Author: Steve L
Date: 2009-09-22 12:02
I dont regret buying mine even though I had to get it shipped to England from the States. Easy to use, brilliant.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-09-22 14:45
Quote:
Did you read ANY of the past postings about the ATG system?
If you did, you would realize that the price of the ATG system is not for the simple tools, but rather the information and technique contained in the instructional DVD on how to use them to balance you reeds.
...GBK GBK hit the nail on the head. The tools I can live with or without. They aren't great, but they aren't bad. But the information is (IMO) WELL worth the money. I use different tools than what came in the kit, but still and will continue to use the techniques and knowledge that I received from the book and DVD.
Alexi
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-09-22 14:58
I have to add what I've said many, many times. Any tool is only as good as the cane. You simply can't make a good reed from poor cane, but you can certainly make your reeds better. Just like you can't make really good wine from poor grapes but you can make mediocre wine. It all depends on your standard of what a really "good" reed is. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-09-22 20:45
The tool has a ridge so that the block goes over the tip of the reed without breaking it head on.
Works really well. You have to know that the cane is good in the first place or you are making something balanced which won't give a good sound, etc.
It's like ingredients in a recipe - if an ingredient is bad, it doesn't matter how well you cook it.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2009-09-22 22:00
It's the only method which explains the "why" you do certain things to a reed in an extremely straight forward way. If you had troubles with Vandoren in the past, this method will probably make you change your mind after working on a few(depending on your equipment of course).
Post Edited (2009-09-22 22:01)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-09-22 22:40
I think ATG works pretty well for making bad reeds playable, and you're much less likely to butcher a reed with ATG than with a reed knife. GBK's right about the price being more for the instruction than the equipment--it's like purchasing a lesson with Mr. Ridenour. In general I've been pleased with ATG and would recommend the product to others, because it will teach you how to make many more reeds play properly.
Where ATG perhaps falls a little short is in the finer points of reed adjustment--aspects other than balance (such as overall responsiveness, brightness/darkness, etc.) ATG focuses on carefully adjusting (thinning) the reed tip, but there are other kinds of adjustments that you can do to reeds to affect their sound and response that don't necessarily involve the tip. It's also nice to be able to make some adjustments on-the-go--for that I keep a Swiss Army knife in my case, which is more portable than the ATG glass and finishing tool. (I still use ATG at home, though.)
You can watch Tom use the ATG system on YouTube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZkXrUPRaIY
(the blindfold is kind of a silly gimmick, but the ATG system really does work)
Btw, Ed P has some good (and free!) materials about reed adjustment on his webpage that are worth checking out if you haven't already.
Post Edited (2009-09-22 22:48)
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-09-25 00:18
I just received my ATG system yesterday. I watched the DVD, assembled the tool, opened a box of reeds and followed the instructions. I threw out 2 reeds the first day, simply because they were too soft to play on.
The other 8 I played again today, and did a little more work on some of them. The are only one or two that are questionable. At least 6 would be fine for practicing (and sounding quite good) and a few (MORE THAN ONE!) would be great for a lesson or performance. So far, I'm really impressed.
But, as with most reed adjustment systems, time will be the deciding factor. Will these reeds last? Will they be too soft or close up from being too soft after adjusting? Will they still have the warmth and darkness while retaining vibrancy that we all want?
As far as price for the system, it's worth it just for the DVD as others have stated. The tool I find to be quite useful. I'm not sure I could get equal results (and CONSISTENT results) doing the same thing with sandpaper alone.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-09-25 12:12
NBeaty my thought is that you are starting with too soft strength. It's much better to have them slightly too hard,balance and sand them down so they are still bit too hard and then start to brake them in. And I don't believe in good right out of the box.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-09-25 21:01
I need to add to some of the above remarks that there is more to fixing a reed than the ATG system can do. It is a very good tool for basic balancing but there's more to it than just that. If you're interested you can check my reed page on my website for several hints on what else you can do. http://eddiesclarinet.com
In reference to what Iceland saying he doesn't believe in good right out of the box, I agree in most cases. But I have found in many boxes of reeds over the years that I've often found one or two reeds that needed no adjusting, only breaking in properly, more than he can imagine, and I'm talking about professional playing level. Of course I've also found many boxes that I've not been able to get or adjust anything other then a few mediocre reeds. It's all about the cane. By the way, as I've previously mention in another post the new Rico Reserve Classic reeds are fantastic. I'm using more then half of the box right out of the box without making a single adjustment other then a very small clip the make the #4s a tiny bit harder for my taste. Of course I broke them in slowly and closed the pores as I always do. As I said, it all depends on the cane. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
PS. I am an uncompensated Rico performing artist.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-09-25 21:50
Eddie touches an interesting subject when he mentions the "professional level".
Interesting in a way that when it's about play-testing other instruments we often hear that a pro can overcome many shortcomings of an instrument setup by sheer aptitude or genius. On the other hand, we hear that a pro will find one or two "good" reeds in a box while we humble amateurs find seven or eight.
Why is it that a pro can play a lousy horn yet rejects most of the reeds while we at the other end of the musical food chain struggle with a halfway imperfect instrument yet find most of the reeds in a box playable?
I am sure I'm missing something here...
--
Ben
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-09-25 22:01
I have never gotten performance quality reed out of clipping a reed even if I taper it before. I usually at most get a good rehearsal reed but no more than that. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but I've tried through the years all the tips that Ed mention on his website with less than satisfactory result and even in many cases did more harm to the reed than good. I'm still yet to not improve a reed or ruin it with the ATG system.
Starting with too hard reed and balancing it down until it's still bit too hard and start to brake it in. With this method and careful brake in I get 20(in few cases less) up to 30 hours of play from each reed.
I also know few professionals(and even heard that Stanley Drucker does it too) who go through boxes of Vandoren and if it doesn't work on first play they throw it away and just use another one from the box.
I don't know why people do it but I'm able to get(taking into count that it's a good cane) 90% of all reeds to work and often have 50-60% of concert quality reeds in each box with no more than about minute or two with each reed. Only with the ATG system and back of a sandpaper.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-09-25 23:06
Ben wrote:
>> Why is it that a pro can play a lousy horn yet rejects most of the reeds while we at the other end of the musical food chain struggle with a halfway imperfect instrument yet find most of the reeds in a box playable?>>
This is a profound question.
The short answer is that excellent players have more sophisticated demands placed upon them. They have not only to play with an acceptable sound, but also to play with a variety of sounds, at different dynamics...and many other things, according to the context.
That context may be determined by others, as in an orchestra; but not necessarily. In a solo piece, an excellent player demands more of themselves, and therefore of a reed, than a less able player. They are TRYING for more; so what would be acceptable to the less able player simply isn't up to the demands of the situation as they view it.
Considerable subtlety may be involved.
The truth is that an excellent player (notice that I avoid the characterisation 'professional' -- many so-called 'amateurs' are 'excellent' in this sense) lives in a different world from a less excellent player. So in that world, what is 'playable' -- reed or instrument -- has a different meaning.
In the other world, 'substandard' reeds or instruments are more or less OK, and an excellent player can get by, to an undiscerning audience.
It just turns out that having a bad reed seems to do more damage than having a bad instrument.
Tony
Post Edited (2009-09-26 21:13)
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2011-12-26 18:55
In this older thread, several have said that the tool is no big deal, the most important thing is the video. Yet recently several list the ATG (tool?) as part of an essential basic toolkit. A change of heart perhaps?
(Mr) Laurie (Braaten)
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Author: Trevor M
Date: 2011-12-26 19:34
The tool is pretty integral to the system... you could probably work out a way to hold sandpaper to simulate the effect, but it would be tricky.
I think the ATG reed system is the best reed-adjustment method that's currently out there, but I don't know if that's saying much. With it, I can make a bad or mediocre reed much *better* but I still can't make it *great*. It can make very acceptable practice room reeds, basically, although that's a lot better than tossing the duds.
It does favor people who want relatively soft reeds, I think, since once you start clipping an adjusted reed and changing its overall length, you seem to get into weird territory. I've been using it less than a year, though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-12-26 22:58
Very useful info, and together with "Romancing the Reed" , in The Clarinet, you can do a super job
richard smith
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2011-12-27 04:55
rtmyth wrote:
> Very useful info, and together with "Romancing the Reed" , in
> The Clarinet, you can do a super job
>
Can you say a little more about this source? I'm having difficulty locating it.
Thanks,
Laurie
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-12-27 13:06
I would contact James Gillespie, the editor. Listed on the site of the publication, which is under ICA site.
richard smith
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2011-12-27 14:43
I have been playing the clarinet since 1982 had my first reed master class in 1998 and was very intimidated!! So much information and so many ways to mess up the reed when adjusting it. I never managed to actually do it properly.
I bought the ATG system a few years ago based on recommendation on this board and I found it to be the absolutely simplest and most efficient way to adjust reeds. I am sure a well trained "reed artist" can do a better job than me, but for the reed newbie this is by far the best product I have ever tried.
In fact it is the only reed adjustment method I consistently use.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-12-27 19:01
Sylvain expresses my experience with the ATG system. Mine sits at my elbow in my practice space, and I use it.
Still, the key is to know what to do to balance the reed (and why). The tool consists of a flat piece of glass. You lay the reed on the glass to work on it. The rest of the tool is a little sanding block with curved lower edges so that when you drag it up onto the reed, you won't catch the edge and break it.
Its a pretty simple mechanical system that you could copy at home; but, hey, Tom has done the invention and deserves his royalties.
Bob Phillips
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-12-30 03:37
Everyone's offered a really good perspective on the product, but seems, baring Bob, to have not much described the tool.
Clearly, as mentioned, it's not just the tool your paying for, but Tom's explanation of the reed and technique with the tool.
That said, envision a rectangular box made out of hard rubber that fits in one's hand, say 3" in length, 2" in width, and 1/2" in thickness, by sheer guess.
Now envision that on top of one of the 3" X 2" sides there is a smaller rectangular piece of rubber than then 3" X 2" side it sits upon, that is very thin.
Finally, envision placing an abrasive on this surface. By virture of the smaller piece of rubber not completely covering the 3" x 2" surface, the abrasive forma a contour, that when applied to the reed using Tom's methods, removes material from the reed in a uniform fashion that conforms to the reed's contour. There's no gouging like might occur when working on a tiny spot with a knife.
I hope this explains the simply yet brilliant insights Tom bring's to reed adjustment.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-12-30 16:11
The ATG tool is effective and simple. Its main drawback for me is that it is designed to work always *from* the tip ("against the grain" - ATG). Often the tip is already thin enough and going over it with each stroke to balance a thick area farther back along the vamp can cause the tip to collapse. ATG is a useful tool if the area that needs to be thinned is at or near the tip end of the reed. For areas closer to the bark end of the vamp, either you need to be a little inventive about how you use the ATG block - e.g. starting it at an angle somewhere mid-vamp, or you need to use something else - a file, knife or something else that can work more locally.
Karl
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Author: danb1937
Date: 2011-12-30 17:07
I have been using my ATG kit for at least seven years, sporadically, to be sure, but I have never regretted buying it. With a little patience, I have been able to improve the response of at least 90% of my reeds.
Money well spent!
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2011-12-30 17:35
Sounds like a good tool to have, I'll probably wait for now. I am especially influenced by the comment of kdk.
Karl wrote:
>Its main drawback for me is that it is designed to work always *from* the
>tip ("against the grain" - ATG). ften the tip is already thin enough and
>going over it with each stroke to balance a thick area farther back along >the vamp can cause the tip to collapse. ATG is a useful tool if the area >that needs to be thinned is at or near the tip end of the reed.
I'm a newby at reed adjustment, only been at for around 10 mos. I often don't need to work on the tip (and sometimes need to trim it). I've been influenced by two sources:
Rico Reed balancing video (although I use a knife instead of reed rush)
Pino's Clarinet book, where he suggests that the bottom, middle, and top edges of the reed correspond directly to the playability of the lower, middle, and upper ranges. (So I attempt to balance each of these areas separately).
A third source I haven't had a chance to try yet, the tips on eddies page regarding reed adjustments.
I think for my purposes the Reed Geek would be the first tool to get, perhaps get the ATG later, when I have less clarinet finances showing up. (I've found reed rush to be too weak and brittle, maybe I got a bad batch.)
LJ
(Mr.) Laurie (Braaten)
Laurie (he/him)
Post Edited (2012-01-03 21:07)
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