 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2009-09-18 19:25
My band instructor always says that i don't play loud enough but this is because im afraid that i will damage my tone. so what can i do to play loudly but also beautifully as well? i currently use a beautiful selmer from the 40s and a vandoren m30 mouthpiece with vandoren/v12s at 4s.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-09-18 19:33
Keep your embouchure firmer as you get louder and us more breath support to play at a louder volume. In other words, don't force the tone. You need to support from the diaphragm not from your throat. Don't over blow. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: FDF
Date: 2009-09-18 22:38
I doubt that Mr. Years of Wisdom, had good tone to begin with. Mr. YoW you weren't supporting your tone with good breathing. If you were, you would know that you needed more support from the diaphragm. Knock down your reeds from 4 to 3 and see if you don't have more control.
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2009-09-19 00:51
I agree with Ed, but I found what also often happens, is that the tongue position lowers when playing loudly. But think of the only thing changing is the volume of air.
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Author: yearsofwisdom
Date: 2009-09-19 01:13
thanks Ed, ill definitely think of breathing through the diaphragm.. and FDF i am known for my extremely good tone,which is why i have trouble playing loudly in solo situations in orchestra or band since i like to have my good tone...and i do use 3s in fact, but they overblow at the higher register....
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-09-19 03:05
Why not just give the director what he wants? If your tone quality were so bad that you needed to cover it up by playing softly, I don't think the director would be asking you to play out. Give your director the benefit of the doubt--he/she did go to music school, after all.
Do you have a private teacher? If so, what does he/she think?
I have to chuckle a little bit because I actually had the opposite problem when I was in school--my director was always asking me to play more softly because my tone projected so well. It used to drive me crazy.
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-09-19 03:36
The clarinet should never be played louder than a solid forte (perhaps fortissimo) or the sound spreads no matter what setup you play on or what you do with your embouchure or tongue position.
Find another band to play in with a director who uses the brass section to create the sound he thinks the clarinets should be producing.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-09-19 04:38
Dileep Gangolli wrote:
> Find another band to play in with a director who uses the brass
> section to create the sound he thinks the clarinets should be
> producing.
It sounded to me as if the problem is not that the director expects too much volume from the clarinet *section*, but that the director feels the original poster is not playing out enough on *solos*. He did say *solos*. (Am I right, YoW?)
I don't think the director is asking our OP to blast and get a bad sound. I think he's simply asking for the kind of projection one would expect of a soloist or orchestral player (where you may have to be heard over a string section, for example).
Most of the time, in a concert band setting where you may have 10 or more clarinets, the director neither needs nor wants that much volume, especially from the 1st clarinets--at least that's been my experience. But if you're playing a solo, you need much more projection than you do when playing with a section in a band. If you're playing a solo and the director thinks you need to play out more, you probably do. You should be able to get fairly good projection before the sound begins to spread, so there's no reason to be timid about it.
Post Edited (2009-09-19 04:47)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-09-19 14:15
Chances are playing with a softer reed than you are comfortable with will most likely result in an unfocused, flat tone quality and intonation. Perhaps you will play louder but it will not be pleasant, may even be ugly. If you are already supporting correctly you may be closing off your throat or your tongue may be blocking the air passage. There are many reasons for this happening including a problem with your mouthpiece. Many possibilities, there's often not one solution to a problem. ESP
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2009-09-19 23:16
Try a different clarinet too.
Maybe borrow from other member in the band to see if any difference in volume,
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-09-20 17:53
A new mouthpiece can make a hugh difference but it still depends on what you're doing correctly and if there's something you're doing wrong. You could find a MP that plays louder, brighter, darker, smaller, fuller etc. but you still have to feel comfortable with it and you still have to like your tone. It might not hurt to try some others though. Also, make sure your clarinet is sealing properly. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-09-20 21:39
The M30 is a decent mouthpiece but it is a liitle odd. It features a thicker tip rail that gives it a less bright sound. You could try an M13 Lyre just to see a comparison.
I think though we need to revisit the idea of the diaphragm. The diaphragm is a bell shaped muscle separating the thorax from the abdomin. When contracted, which is the "control" part of the muscle, it inflates the lungs, when relaxed , the diaphragm allows the lungs to expel the air inside of them.
Nowhere in there does the diaphragm actually give you support.
I think we are talking about intercostal muscles (between the ribs) and mainly abdominal muscles.
More support will feel like forcing a bowel movement - the Valsalva reflex. One professor at the Cincinnit Conservatory went as far as to say, "The best rehearsal you'll ever have is when you s**t on yourself.
..........................Paul Aviles
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Author: Rapidcif
Date: 2009-09-20 21:40
Ken ur a genious, but i dont really understand the toungue part. Do u still hold down the middle B fingering when raising your tongue?
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Author: William
Date: 2009-09-21 15:35
Ed P wrote: "Keep your embouchure firmer as you get louder" Just to clarify, I do not think he mean't to in fact bite harder as you try to play with more volumn, but rather avoid to natural temptation to loosen and let more air gush through the mouthpiece. The point is, keep you embouchure relatively firm all the time to maintain consistant tone quality. Playing too hard a reed will cause you to over bite to produce the tone, too soft a reed will make you relax and play with a flat, "hollow' sound. It's the in-between too much and too little that you need to discover. What might help is to try playing some double lip passages and get the feel of more upper lip envolvement in your reed support rather than all lower jaw and lip all the time. The use of more upper with your single lip embouchure will give you more flexability in tuning and playing with a good tone at all levels of volumn.
BTW, one of our local college conductors used to say, "Never louder that lovely" as a rule. Good adivice.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-09-22 02:06
I remembered another thing you might try.
Normally I play with about half the red part of my lower lip over my teeth, and my teeth directly below the point where the lay starts to curve away from the reed.
For more power, with only a little more volume, I point my chin a little more than usual, stretching the skin below my lip and pulling the red part out until only about a quarter of it is over my teeth. This lets the upper partials sound more clearly and gives the tone more "ping" and carrying power. Listen to recordings of Anthony Gigliotti, who did this, in spaces.
Rapidcif - You hold the middle B fingering, all fingers down and the register key open, all the time. To play the overtones, do the same thing you do when you whistle different pitches. You have to blow about twice as hard as usual.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-09-23 06:04
Ken, this is great stuff. I have heard some of it expressed before. I have started working on it with my sound level meter. It of course doesn't register tonal differences but I will use it as a tool. If we're going to use the word "loud" i think it should have some connection to loudness. I'll will spend some time at this to come to my own conclusions. As an experienced woodwind performer (old , unemployed jobbing musician) I can still learn new tricks .(I hope) This idea of a stopped clarinet reminds me of the trumpet exercises with a mute(practicing loud) to open the sound and also of the teacher Adams from Indiana ...he advocated taking the tuning slide out and playing this funky note with maximum intensity...then going back to the playing with the slide back in. The resonance was increased.. I have tried this but not with a sound level meter....I will do it. Thanks for your exercises.
Freelance woodwind performer
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