 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2009-09-09 14:25
Compared to strings, the teaching of the many shades of articulation on clarinet is sorely lacking. (I'm not speaking of (eg) two slurred, two tongued, but the multitude of degrees of entrance, weight, etc.)
1. I recently was looking at Mazas' 75 Melodious and Progressive Studies for violin, and was struck with how much emphasis was placed on different bowing techniques, each achieving a different effect. I mentally noted that with violin you have a physical reference (the bow) that makes such teaching easier than it is on clarinet, where the producers (tongue and breath) are invisible.
2. A year ago or so, I sought out a book "Clarinet Articulation" by Alan Segal which I found mention of in an old Clarinet magazine. It described the book as presenting as etudes familiar orchestral excerpts each with a particular degree of articulation employed. That book is nowhere to be found.
I'm wondering if the idea below would have any resonance with the pros or teachers on this board (either active or retired):
Record in your home a CD. On it briefly describe the articulation, play a scale in that articulation, and then play a section of a study or etude that emphases that articulation. I'd think it would be best to select the etude from the widely available books that students would already have. (Klose, Langenus, Rose, Voxman, Jettel, Baermann etc). You could sell the CD directly to users of this board or from your own website.
I think such would be widely useful. I know I'd buy the CD.
(I hear an objection now: ask your teacher. Well, teachers come in all shades, and though a teacher may be an have a track record of bringing students alone, I think many teachers really haven't explored these nuances themselves. And when you live very RURALLY as I do, such would be a rare find, indeed.)
Best wishes,
vJoe
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-09-09 14:41
I agree that articulation is a rather thin subject compared with that of strings.
One of the big problems in this area for wind players is that many teachers and performers adhere to only one kind of articulation, generally. Some people will say "Tip to Tip" and others will say "Tip to Middle", but I have not heard many people that "I use tip-to-tip for this situation and tip-to-middle for that situation, and I find a really nice result with anchor tonguing in that other piece.
I think many of us try to find one method of touching the reed that works for as many situations as possible.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-09-09 14:43
vJoe,
I have the Alan Segal book you mentioned. Infact we may have emailed regarding it.
In terms of articulation one needs think a little like a string player with regard to the different types. I also feel that breath is important to articulation and phrasing, very much like the bow is to the string instrument.
I'd happily do this CD for you if you provided the funds :-)
Peter Cigleris
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-09-09 14:49
Skygardener,
that may be true in your experience but I find that we can articulate in different ways very much in the same way as we articulate certain words when we speak.
I would always articulate a legato tongued passage in a different manner than a staccatto passage or sec passage. Essentially the fundamental technique is the same but the different ways of pronouncing makes the articulation different. Try tonguing using these:
Dah, Du, Dee
and note the differences
Peter Cigleris
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2009-09-09 15:43
Peter, I've emailed you privately. Thanks!
Sky, I'm referring things such as the degrees of staccato, the extremely dry (seco), the moist (whose tone tapers quickly away), the pointed, the puntato, the marcato, etc, and all the degrees in between. To hear an excellent player demonstrate would be very helpful. Sure, we've all heard them in passages, but a systematic exposition would be valuable.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2009-09-09 16:11
Given that you seem to know the types of articulation anyway (!), isn't this a little like asking someone to record a cd with all the different dynamics on it?
Wouldn't it be more useful to record yourself and try to make improvements? I feel that a lot of articulation is context specific, and may not be easily classifiable (or universal for that matter).
I did have a teacher who said that a player should have at least 6 different lengths of articulation on any one note. That's worth trying.
Post Edited (2009-09-09 16:17)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-09-09 16:45
Alexis's comments point out the tendency to just consider one aspect of articulation.....ie the length of the note.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-09-09 17:14
Arnoldstang wrote:
"Alexis's comments point out the tendency to just consider one aspect of articulation.....ie the length of the note."
I'm not sure it is to be honest. I think of articulation as how you start the note and the sound you make as you do it.
Perhaps I'm missing something here but surely length of notes are whether they are crotchets, minims etc.
I'm happy to be enlightened
Peter Cigleris
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2009-09-09 17:24
Alexis, you flatter me!
I don't know them all. If I were master of all the nuances I'm make such a CD myself. I think a violinist would say there are 20 some bowing techniques, each with its own effect. I think the tonal palette of clarinestists would be broadened if more didactic effort went into teaching such nuances, and since we don't have a visual reference point, I think the aural method via an instructional CD is the best way to procede.
(Segal's taking well known orchestral passages, eg Verdi's Triumphal March -- if that is one he used, I don't know -- would also work in a printed book.)
vJoe
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-09-09 18:52
Peter, length of note= separation of notes .... Many people express it as length. ie... "How long should I play the eighth notes?" They generally don't say "separate do you want the notes" . It could become a semantical issue. My point....string articulation involves the type of attack and release as well as how separated the notes are.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-09-09 19:27
Arnoldstang,
We here in the UK express those sorts of things in many ways including:
'how much space would you like between those notes?'
Conductor, 'Can those quavers be more separate?'
Of course it could be a semantical issue or indeed something that's lost in translation.
We windies can learn soooo much from our string playing friends
Peter Cigleris
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-09-09 19:50
cigleris wrote:
> Arnoldstang,
>
> We here in the UK express those sorts of things in many ways
> including:
>
> 'how much space would you like between those notes?'
>
> Conductor, 'Can those quavers be more separate?'
>
> Of course it could be a semantical issue or indeed something
> that's lost in translation.
Is the glass half empty or half full?
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-09-10 06:46
Peter Cigleris,
Maybe I missed my point. I am very aware of existence of different possible articulations.
I am only saying that many teachers train their students that there is essentially only one method of articulation with regard to tongue placement and the only variable is the length of the note- ie. the start and body of the note are just about the same.
I am sure that many on the board have heard that anchor tonguing is bad and to be avoided at all costs. My serious questions is "Why?" Are there truly no situations in classical music in which it can be used? Why is it that the "tip-to-tip" idea is essentially applied to all notes of all pieces?
I have never heard of a teacher saying "You should touch only the right side of the reed for this section, but the bottom here, and the tip here." (However I have, occasionally, heard a teacher say "You should use a breath attack here").
It would be like a violin teacher saying that all notes must use the middle 75% of the bow hair and the rest of the hair is useless.
Why limit ourselves?
Post Edited (2009-09-10 10:16)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-09-10 15:02
Peter, clever word use....Koan....a riddle that has no solution.
Had to look it up.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-09-10 16:01
I'll take credit for koan. I'm not sure it ranks up there with " the sound of one hand clapping" but perhaps it's close enough. The English language is terrific. ......musician..."How long would like that note?" conductor...."pretty short" thanks. On this topic I bought work out shorts yesterday....the salesman said how long do you want them? .....finally my kids joke.... walking to school with my young kids one day I encounter some conflict between them. I asked them "Do you know how to get along"?. I answered for them.....You take a short and stretch it. That's why I don't do standup.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-09-10 16:18
..."How long would like that note?"
Until it is ended.
"How long do you want your shorts?"
Until they wear out?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: clarinetcase
Date: 2009-09-19 00:40
Interesting thread. Years ago I played in a band with several players who told me that there were various ways imitating bowing techniques on the violin when playing the clarinet. According to what I'd been told, during the 20s in particular, clarinetists imiated the sound of the violin bowing technique when playing pieces written for violin on clarinet. Unfortunately they are all gone now. . . and I wish I had more than casual coinversations on this subject.
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