 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: winders
Date: 2009-08-02 15:26
i want to change my ligature
what is the main thing that we need to choose a ligature?
is that the reed must be contact with metal ligature (rail)?
how about VD Optimum, BG Traditional, VD Leather, Rovner MKIII or another ligatures?
thank you
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-02 15:38
Everyone will tell you that the one that they use is the best one for you. Of course that's ridiculous so don't believe it. You are you, using your mouthpiece and choice of reeds. The only way you will know what's best for you is the try several different makes and models to see what gives you the best result. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-08-02 15:48
I'd pick the Rovner Eddie Daniels over the Rovner MKIII
btw - Ricardo got the Principal met Job with the Rovner MKIII. Pretty sure that the timing is correct as at ClarFest 1992 Cincinatti he played the III. That was right before he got the Met Gig.
I've seen lots of players switch from the Vandoren Optimum to the Vandoren Leather, but as Ed said, you have to pick what works best for you.
Could be a Luyben!
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-02 15:54
There are differences from one ligature to another, albiet smaller differences than from reed to reed or mouthpiece to mouthpiece. For me the importance is to allow the reed to vibrate naturally, yet hold it with enough force to counter the usual warpage that causes the reed to be higher in the middle bringing the tip slightly closer to the moutpiece.
For an inexpensive ligature that is SUPERIOR on all counts I love the Rovner Light (L5). I have just purchased a new one to replace an old standby that I have had for years and still use more than many very expensive ones.
For the expensive ones, I like the ones that mock the old Bonode style (whether the advertizing admits is or not) such as the Vandoren Leather (using the metal plate), the Optimum (with the straight metal grooves) or the Rovner Eddie Daniels.
I'm sure you'll get some other suggestions.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-02 16:11
I like the Rovner Eddie Daniels. If my reed seems a little dampened, I use the metal contacts. If the reed seems too bright, I flip the cloth over the rails and use that. Seems to work for me.
Just don't lose the rovner mouthpiece cap. Other ones don't fit........ Sigh.
Alexi
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-02 17:30
I play on a Rovner Mark III. I like it.
I play on an Eddie Daniels mouthpiece with my Mark III. Since I bought both at the same time, I almost ordered an Eddie Daniels ligature to go with the mouthpiece, but I just couldn't justify to myself spending that much on a ligature. The Mark III works great for me.
That being said, however, I REALLY like my Eddie Daniels mouthpiece a lot, so it doesn't surprise me to hear that people like their EDII ligatures.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-02 17:44
My theory is the lighter the better. The heavier the ligature, the more vibration it absorbs. Almost all of Kal Opperman's students use an inexpensive Martin, with the screws down. He shapes them so that the bands don't bind on the edges of the reed.
For me, string is the best of all. Here's how to use it: http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Uploads/strnglig.html
There are a million ligatures, many of them astonishingly overpriced, and at least one good player who uses each. Start with the cheapest and use what works for you. I agree with Paul Aviles that the Rovner Lite is excellent. For (too) much more, see http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=153557&t=153550.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-02 18:08
Like I said, everyone thinks what they like is the best. Try as many as you can. The idea of some heavy, leather or other material ligatures is to dampen out the things in the sound that you don't like and add to the sound the things you do like. It's different for everyone. ESP
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2009-08-02 19:44
My favorite new lig is made by a local NYC clarinetist, his name is Carl Jackson.
It's the simplest lig I've ever used, except maybe the string types.
He's taken a treated strip of leather, then puts a few well-placed holes in it, depending on your tastes. It works like the Rovner with on simple screw pulling the leather strap across your reed, but with much better results. Very simple style.
I'm using his new ligs on all my horns, and they've worked out amazingly well.
He guarantees them, gives you a spare, and can customize it for you in person or anyway you two can work it out.
Carl Jackson, lives in Brooklyn, NY, and can be reached at: 1-801-824-6267.
Carl's ligs haven't reached the stores yet, but you may be seeing them out there soon. Until then, you can call him or try sending him an email at:
allpointligatures@yahoo.com.
Good luck with your search...there's always something new & better out there.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
Post Edited (2009-08-02 19:58)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-02 20:23
One of my students has one of those ligatures that John is now using and I tried it but I didn't like it on my set up. She sounded OK on it but I didn't think it was an improvement over what she had before. Nothing is the right one for everyone. Am I sounding like a broken record, oh, I mean CD. ESP
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-02 20:28
best thing about ligatures is ANYTHING that will hold the reed on the mouthpiece will work. I've used a piece of velcro for a long time in the past. And keep a small piece in my bag at all times in case I or someone else has a ligature malfunction and needs something in a pinch.
Alexi
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-08-02 22:12
I've written about this before, but it's probably worth repeating. I have an old Rovner dark that I like. I also have a very basic metal one that I use on occasion, because every so often I'll put on a reed that seems to play better with it.
A while back, I went to a conference where several dealers were selling a variety of clarinet supplies. I figured that I'd try some of the more expensive ligatures to see if they made any difference. They didn't. My basic Rovner dark played just as well as ligatures costing two and three times its price. As others have said, with ligatures, more expensive does not necessarily mean better.
Post Edited (2009-08-02 22:13)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-02 22:55
I have two different ligs I use regularly: the Rovner Eddie Daniels II and the Vandoren Klassik string ligature.
One performance last spring, I was horrified to notice that I didn;'t ashve EITHER of them with me. I had been using the string,and thought I might have dropped it when I last put my clarinet away. The warmup room for our band was dark, and I didn't notice the ligature lying in one of the hollows in my black Protec case, where the upper joint of the clarinet normally site.
Of course, none of the other clarinet players had a spare, including the band director, who was planning on sitting in with a quartet for us. He offered to let me use his, but that would have left him unable to play in the quarted.
I ended up using a sholace from my black dress shoes. It actually worked quite nicely.
Jeff
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-08-02 22:56
Another inexpensive ligature (and one that gets no respect) is the Luyben ligature.
It is a simple design, made of light material and permits the reed to fully vibrate, with nice response.
Many of my students have put their expensive $60+ ligature back in their case and now use the $10 Luyben as their main ligature.
BTW - The Luyben ligature has been produced since about 1965, but only recently the original molds were found which now (via computer technology) make an exact recreation of the original design possible.
...GBK
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-02 23:57
It's not how much it costs, it's how it effects your sound, articulation, response etc. At a student level there probably won't be much, if any, difference. The more advanced the player the more likely you will find a difference. Sometimes it is very subtle, other times it's more substantial. It depends on the player, their equipment and finally, how fussy and sensitive they are to their playing. I have often found some different ligatures to make a substantial difference and others very little difference. Yes, you can sound just fine with any old ligature but finding one that makes even a slight difference makes you that much better, even if it's in your mind. ESP
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-03 00:12
John -
Has Francois Louis gone the way of all flesh?
Ken Shaw
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2009-08-03 03:02
Hi Ken & All:
As products and materials have evolved over the years, we should all try new and often better clarinet equipment.
I used a Bonade for years and loved it, then tried the Luyben for a while, did the Rovner thing, even tried a string lig, and it worked, except for quick changes of horns, then Harrison was "golden" and I loved it, but when it broke I had to find something that let the reed vibrate, but was more durable.
FL had a great Sax lig going strong here in NYC, so I asked Roberto to have FL make one for Clarinet. Then for years it was the brass or gold FL for me.
A few months ago I met Carl Jackson, a very impressive young man and fine Clarinet player. I hesitatingly tried his "new" simple leather lig...it was amazing! He customized it for me on the spot, and it only got better. He uses a fine grade of leather, which he pre-stretches and some simple hardware. The spare he made to follow the original was even better, so I now use my spare as the #1 Bb lig at WICKED.
I've recorded 2 recent Philip Glass film soundtracks on Carl's new lig, and the playbacks were very pleasing. When I put the FL back on, it sounded dull by comparison. So I'm very happy with Carl's new invention.
When the Glass movies are released in late 2009 and 2010, you can judge whether you feel the sound is pleasing or not?
The films are "MR. NICE" and "WHEN THE DRAGON SWALLOWED THE SUN", so to answer your question Ken, the FL is back in the case...for now!
Cheers,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2009-08-03 12:12
Has anyone ever done a double-blind test where neither player nor listener know which ligature is being used? I must say I remain to be convinced that there is any significant influence on the sound (and if there is, it must be very very much less than the effect of different reeds, to say nothing of different mouthpieces).
But of course, if you think it will make you sound better, it most probably will - and this is quite enough reason to buy the ligature of your choice. Personally, I use a Rovner - but only because (a) it doesn't mark the mouthpiece, (b) it's easy to adjust (c) it doesn't have anything underneath to get tangled in your beard (which must be an issue for many potential users of the Vandoren optimum).
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-03 12:39
Yes, That's what I used to do with my students. I'd have them play several ligatures and mouthpieces behind my back and give my opinion. I refer you to my very first post here, the first answer to this posting. "Everyone will tell you that the one that they use is the best one for you." Just because someone else sounds good using any piece of equipment, especially a ligature, that doesn't mean you will sound any better too. If that were the case everyone would be using the same everything, mouthpiece, ligature, reed and clarinet. ESP
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-08-03 12:48
I agree that there is no one good ligature. The best one is the one that works best for you on your set up. The mouthpiece, ligature, reed, barrel, etc all work together in balance. I have found that changing one of those elements will cause me to change another to get the sound, response and feel that I desire.
A couple others to throw in the mix- the Peter Spriggs is very good.
http://www.peterspriggs.com/ I believe Muncy carries them. Very clear, clean, even and responsive.
Marc Jean makes a very nice one in a somewhat traditional Bonade style design but with a little variation. It is very even and responsive with a very nice depth. Lots of color.
http://www.musiquedemarc.com/en/index.asp
I have found that moving a ligature slightly up or down can also produce subtle changes. There is often a "sweet spot".
Good luck.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-03 13:25
keep in mind too that the type of ligature you choose MAY be limited by it's intended use. If you play Bb and A and need to switch between the two and ONLY use one mouthpiece, you need a ligature that will not slip off the reed when changing the mouthpiece over.
And there's also the "ease of use" with ligatures, as well as durability of ligatures. The new gigliotti ligatures are easy to overtighten and snap the screws. The FL ligature (at least the model I had) is a bit picky on lining it up correctly with the reed. A string ligature needs to be wound, and without a mouthpiece with grooves (unless you decide to carefully make some yourself) can be slippery and slip off. Things like that.
Alexi
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-03 14:08
Just a note on string. The string should be run through a cake of 100% beeswax a few times. This will make it tacky and will prevent slippage.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-08-03 15:46
I like one-screw ligs for simplicity
Ed Daniels is my favorite
But I also like vd Optimum
and square profile rubber rings from Target Pharmacy
or a shoe lace
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-08-03 15:55
When testing ligatures, or any piece of equipment, try it in a large room before making a final decision, as you may find that what sounds good for you in a small room may not sound good in a large one.
Chris
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-03 17:04
sfalexi wrote:
<<And there's also the "ease of use" with ligatures, as well as durability of ligatures. The new gigliotti ligatures are easy to overtighten and snap the screws.>>
I didn't know there was a new Gigliotti ligature, but I'm very familiar with what you're talking about. I played on Gigliotti ligatures (plastic with plastic screws) about 20 years ago, broke both of mine that way, and switched to a Rovner (dark). It was about that time my teacher started using a Rovner, too.
I played my Rovner dark for many years until the screw threads wore out and I could no longer tighten it all the way. That's when I bought my Mark III. I'm not sure if there's a whole lot of difference between a brand new Mark III and a brand new Rovner dark (perhaps other people can comment on their experiences), but for me there was a big difference between my 15-year-old Rovner dark with the worn-out screw and my new Mark III (for obvious reasons). 
IMHO, there are several practical advantages to the Rovners that make them worth trying. The way they're designed, they pretty much fit any mouthpiece (for example, when my Gigliotti lig broke, I tried using a Bonade inverted ligature as a substitute until I could buy something else--it wouldn't fit on my Gigliotti mouthpiece). Rovners hold up pretty well. They're relatively inexpensive (except for the Eddie Daniels model, of course). And most importantly for me, if you keep your mouthpiece greased properly, they will stay on when you pull the mouthpiece off. They may also allow you to use reeds that wouldn't work as well with other setups--for example, when my teacher switched to using a Rovner dark, at the time she found she got surprisingly good results from Mitchell Lurie reeds, when before she played only Vandorens.
But that brings up another point related to Ed P's point about experimentation. He's right--you really do have to experiment to find what works best for you. In that vein, you may find that changing one component of your setup (e.g., you ligature) makes it desirable or even necessary to change another component (e.g., your reeds) to get the best results. You may even get the best results from "downgrading" part of your setup in response to a change in another part, as my teacher did with reeds when she changed ligatures.
Post Edited (2009-08-03 17:51)
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