 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-07-21 15:42
Well, not a bushel, exactly, but 3 loosely packed plastic shopping bags of barrels.
A colleague announced that his friend had just gone into the clarinet barrel business, and had made him a custom barrel to curs his intonation challenges using an odd, long mouthpiece on his Buffet R13.
The fellow, Doug Bendewald, has been making rather larger wood turnings (like colonial columns!) for many years and has now developed tooling for clarinet barrels. His web site:
http://vesselsclarinetbarrels.com/www.vesselsclarinetbarrels.com.html
Another colleague, worried about playing a long gig with one of THOSE string quartets, ordered short barrels for his Selmer 9G Bb and Yamaha A clarinets so he could push his pitch up to 442+. Working with Dough, he stumbled upon an incredible barrel, fell in lust, bought it and brought it to WW5 last week. Switching to bassoon for the evening, he loaned me that special barrel.
AND I FELL INTO LUST, trying to foist my cocobollo spare barrel on him. SIGH. it has rings, and he noticed.
Now, the good part:
I've been keeping an eye out for one of these miracle barrels and auditioned several dozen to match my Buffet RC. I emailed Doug, and told him that I wanted to find Miracle Barrel's kid sister.
Yesterday, he brought a bushel of barrels (about 45 of them) to a local church, and two of us took over the main rooms in the building and went through them. I didn't find that miracle barrel, but did find two of her kid sisters, bought them and took them home with me.
A ringless cocobollo barrel dramatically improved my setup. It made a huge difference in my expressivity --allowing subtleties in leaps and fast passages not possible with my stock barrel (from another Buffet) that has been my best barrel so far. It also greatly increased my dynamic range, from ppp to fff (but not ffff). I have yet to sit down and check its 12ths and intonation.
A second barrel of Bocote, is very similar in playing characteristics, but quite a bit less boisterous.
Some observations:
1.) These barrels were made from adjacent sections of wooden blanks on production tooling. No customization (taper, wall thickness, wood selection...) was applied.
2.) They were very consistent in their playing characteristics.
3.) It seems that we were searching for the variability between the individual barrels. Of the 45 or so I tried, three didn't work with my setup at all, and 5 felt and sounded (to me, the player) considerably better than anything in my small collection of barrels.
4.) For barrels like these: using off-the-rack lumber and production tooling, it remains a challenge to find the one or 3 of 45 that will really make a difference to YOUR playing.
5.) Sampling 3 at a time would be very inefficient search procedure. Go to the bushel basket, and spend hours. What seemed to work was to line up the candidates, trying to find one that was noticeably different. Compare that out-of-the-ordinary barrel to your own (baseline) barrel. Reject ruthlessly to thin the candidates.
6.) The miracle barrel is still not in my possession, but I'm better off than I was.
NOW: the scheme.
I'm applying a little strip of blue masking tape to my barrel for WW5 tonight --so that I can increase the confusion between my "kid-sister" barrel and the Miracle Barrel in the hopes that I can spirit it home in my case. SIGH
Bob Phillips
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-07-21 16:25
Bob Phillips stated "Selmer 9G Bb "
I think you mean a 10G, in which case, it should have a taper.
I have a barrel that Tony G. made for it, which features a taper (like his Moennig setup) with a hard rubber insert.
As far as looking for a cocobolo ringless, with taper, at a length to allow pushing up the pitch to match "those strings", you might from time to time check the WW org. classifieds or even that innominate auction site if you do not wish to go the custom route.
Re: Bocote and Wenge woods....I made some and did NOT like their characteristics (playing). Likewise, other woods have not "singing" quality, nor do they work well in a water vapor environment.
Kingwood, used in oboes, works OK. Maple, as in bassoons, does not.
I keep going back to Blackwood, Cocobolo, and Hard Rubber.
Disclaimer...I make and sell barrels, but NOT by the bushel.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-07-21 16:58)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-07-21 16:41
Back in 2003 we went to Alaska on a Cruise. The cruise ended in Vancouver so the day after I went to Backun's and spent 6 hours picking a Barrel/bell.
Was interesting comparing the various woods/ barrels. What I thought looked the coolest wasn't the best to play (snakewood).
My wife probably attained her sainthood waiting at Backun's that day.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-07-21 17:09
David,
I live in Europe and cannot go to Backun’s. I have a great cocobolo MoBa barrel that unfortunately developed a crack, so I’ll be getting a new one, and I can choose - either another cocobolo or a grenadilla. Could you maybe tell me what would the best thing for me to do - get another cocobolo or grenadilla instead?
Thanks!
David A E
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-07-21 17:44
No way I could possibly tell you what to get as you aren't me/I'm not you.
Did you like the sound of the Coco? To me the Coco's are darker, Grenadilla is brighter, and the other woods have their own characteristics.
I don't like Grenadilla Barrels anymore after playing the Coco's, but that's just me.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-07-21 17:58
Well I figured that out, but I thought it wouldn’t hurt asking.
I did like the sound of the Coco, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only sound I would ever want to hear. I am trying to figure out what’s best for me here in Germany, brighter or darker. I’m really not sure, but I think brighter is better for me. Yet, darker is more ”French”. Or have I turned it around?!
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-07-21 18:34
I made cocobolo barrels for quite a few years.
I always felt that by using a cocobolo barrel you can add warmth and perhaps some additional "complexity" to your sound. I also felt that there was a corresponding loss of projection, however, that did not quite make up for the gain in warmth, especially for orchestral playing.
Alas, several years ago I became quite allergic to the resin in the cocobolo wood and I had to stop making them.
BTW, Allen Segal is right. The 10G barrel should have a reverse taper.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
Buffet Clarinets
Mouthpieces
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-07-21 18:37
RE: a bushel of barrels.
I never made barrels in big enough quantities to fill a bushel.
My best barrels were made for customers who would bring their clarinets and have me make a custom barrel exactly for that clarinet.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-21 19:35
Bob, your reaction to the Miracle barrel was exactly how I reacted when I first tried the Backuns. I thought I was in clarinet heaven. I was, and still am, in love. I have both cocobolo and kingwood bells and barrels. I prefer the kingwood on my Buffet A but the bells and barrels are pretty much inter changeable on my Buffet set. I use coco on my Selmer Signature, they are not inter changeable with my Buffets. It's nice to be in love with your "stuff". ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-07-22 15:21
Questions, Answers & Comments
JJA: Please take a look at Vessel's web site for their current pricing. He's a start-up and relatively cheap --with the limitations of trying a bag to find a good one.
Sorry about the mis-reference to a Selmer 9. I simply subtracted 1 from the 10-G to indicate that it was a previous generation Selmer pro-level instrument.
Alan Segal: There must be a huge difference in technical approach between yours and the mass-produce and look for the oddity approach.
Walter Grabner: This is the Buffet RC you provided me a few years ago. I still have Palanker-Lust for it, and wish I could revisit that custom-made Grabner barrel you offered me. Today, I might be able to tell the difference.
Last night, I lined up 4 barrels on the table by my chair as we played toward dusk on our flutist's deck. I had my normal barrel: the short one from my F-series Buffet, my new Miracle's Kid sister barrel, the Miracle barrel, and a thick-walled cocobollo barrel from Vessel. Really confusing experience. The kid sister barrel turns out to be indistinguishable (but for the identifying patch of masking tape) from the Miracle. The thick-walled Vessel is less bright than the thinner ones.
All of these (quite selected) Vessel barrels are better for transient response than the stock Buffet barrel.
I hereby promise to pick a barrel and stick to it --unless I need a special sonority for some extended bit of music.
SIGH
and, next week, the Bocote comes back from Vessel's engraver.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-07-22 15:43
Bob Phillips stated "There must be a huge difference in technical approach between yours and the mass-produce and look for the oddity approach."
um, I am not sure what you mean by "odditiy" approach. Are you refering to certain brands of barrels as oddities? Please define the terms.
Whose barrels are oddities? In what way?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-07-22 16:10
When trying barrels, make sure you AND the barrel are warmed up thoroughly. If you have put the barrel down for 15 minutes, take time to warm it up again or your won't get a true picture.
Check the pitch in all registers and at all dynamics. Be particular with the throat tones. Make sure that you don't go very sharp, especially in the throat tones, when you play pianissimo. Sometimes the very best SOUNDING barrels don't play the best in tune and vice versa.
A replacement barrel should enhance your intonation, not take away from it.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress
New Buffet Bass Clarinets
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-07-23 16:03
Allan,
By "oddity" approach, I mean searching through a large number of candidates to find that "odd" one that, by chance, somehow came out ok.
From the traffic here on the BB, it seems that you and Walter Grabner have a more scientific approach --pick the taper, volume, length, ... of your barrels based upon some sort of understanding of what is going on between the things you can do with a barrel and the material its made from and the needs of the player and his/er instrument.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-07-23 16:43
Bob Phillips added:
"From the traffic here on the BB, it seems that you [Allan Segal] and Walter Grabner have a more scientific approach --pick the taper, volume, length, ... of your barrels based upon some sort of understanding of what is going on between the things you can do with a barrel and the material its made from and the needs of the player and his/er instrument."
Well, I suppose that approach would indeed increase one's chance of finding that blessed "oddity."
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-07-23 17:56)
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-07-23 17:34
There is lots of good information on barrel specifications available. Some of the best information can be found in the archives of the klarinet email list and also this bulletin board. Measurement and observation of many barrels over many years also helps.
All the science does not guarantee a great result, however. Trial and error also plays a big part, as each clarinet and each player is an individual entity.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New Buffet Bass Clarinets
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-08-08 14:10
Bob got a "bushel" of barrels.
Here goes...
[to the rhythm of "Peter Piper"]
Bob has bought a bigger bag of better barrels!
A bigger bag of better barrels Bob has surely bought!
If Bob had bought a bigger bag of birch-wood barrels,
Would he have had bought the bigger bag of better barrels that he bought?
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Author: CPW
Date: 2009-08-08 14:47
In music's fair city
Where barrels are so pretty
Singing Barrels Barrels,
Good sounds for one and all
She wheels her wheelbarrow
Through bores wide and narrow
Singing Barrels, Barrels,
Good intonation for all
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: William
Date: 2009-08-08 15:51
Roll out the barrel(s).....we'll (all) have a barrel of fun :>)
I've always thought that selecting a new mouthpiece/barrel/clarinet (whatever) was like picking out a white shirt at the mall. It is only "up close and personal" that we notice the subtil differencies, but to the back row, does it really matter if we wear the store brand or custom tailored label? I know, "dress to impress", but isn't behavior--or how one plays--more critical to success. Quality practice is more important to success than superficial pretense. My appologies for perhaps being a bit crabby this am--long and tiring wedding gig last evening. OK--back to the poetry.........
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-08-08 16:17
Instead of buying some wedding apparel
I spent dough on my new Backun barrel.
My spouse got so mad,
I ran a newspaper ad -
Asking: "Has anyone seen my wife Carol?"
...GBK
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Author: CPW
Date: 2009-08-08 17:42
Once upon a midnight dreary,
will I tried barrels until I was weary
Over many a quaint tapers of barrel bore,
While I noodled , nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door
Tis Segal or Backun or Chadash I muttered,
`tapping at my baffle or chamber door -
Only this, and nothing more
Tis a raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Stadler just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a tuner that is dreaming,
And the sonority o'er him streaming states his preferences galore;
And my new barrel from out that shadow that sings floating abovethe floor
Shall remain on my clarinet til nevermore!
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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